Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

Gold Coast lobbying the AFEL for pick 1 as a priority pick, to go with their existing & likely pick 1 pick. Giving them picks 1 & 2 this year if successful with the lobbying.

[Bornadog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

Gold Coast lobbying the AFEL for pick 1 as a priority pick, to go with their existing & likely pick 1 pick. Giving them picks 1 & 2 this year if successful with the lobbying.

I wouldn't give it to them, just stuffs up every one else. Besides they had their chances, too bad

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

and lets face it they were right up there after 5 games. They don't need priority picks. What they need is to trade the players they have for better picks and be smarter about it. Their problem stems from the fact that they chose poorly in the set up and then proceeded to trade even worse. Darcy Mac is probably their best recruit.

[The Underdog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

Gold Coast lobbying the AFEL for pick 1 as a priority pick, to go with their existing & likely pick 1 pick. Giving them picks 1 & 2 this year if successful with the lobbying.

I wonder if that’s because Rowell and Anderson are such close mates. Get them both there and hence more likely to want to stick together long term.

[GVGjr]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I have a 3 year plan for the Suns to get them to a very competitive position and I believe it's necessary to keep an 18 team competition viable

For the 2019, 2020 and 2021 draft/trading period they receive:

One additional end of first round draft pick for the 3 years. This can also be used to trade for experienced players but primarily to give the Suns the currency to take advantage of whatever options present

Access to pre-list one State League player for each of the 3 years. They do not need to use a draft pick to acquire the player but equally they can work with other clubs who might value some players enough to offer a good draft pick. These players must have been on an AFL list before

Access to two Queensland based under 18 players for each of the 3 years without having to given up a pick.

The AFL to stump up to pay for 2 additional development coaches to really provide the players at the club specialist coaching

I'd also be willing to review a modest increase to the salary cap to help the club bring in experienced players

It might seem too lenient but unless they get some assistance they could be down for way too long
It's been poorly managed form the get go and the AFL needs to step in and help them along. Early draft picks have been proven not to work for them and this will give them some options to bring in some more ready made players.

Thoughts?

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I have a 3 year plan for the Suns to get them to a very competitive position and I believe it's necessary to keep an 18 team competition viable

For the 2019, 2020 and 2021 draft/trading period they receive:

One additional end of first round draft pick for the 3 years. This can also be used to trade for experienced players but primarily to give the Suns the currency to take advantage of whatever options present

Access to pre-list one State League player for each of the 3 years. They do not need to use a draft pick to acquire the player but equally they can work with other clubs who might value some players enough to offer a good draft pick. These players must have been on an AFL list before

Access to two Queensland based under 18 players for each of the 3 years without having to given up a pick.

The AFL to stump up to pay for 2 additional development coaches to really provide the players at the club specialist coaching

I'd also be willing to review a modest increase to the salary cap to help the club bring in experienced players

It might seem too lenient but unless they get some assistance they could be down for way too long
It's been poorly managed form the get go and the AFL needs to step in and help them along. Early draft picks have been proven not to work for them and this will give them some options to bring in some more ready made players.

Thoughts?

That's well thought out. To me I think it's akin to giving CPR at the beginning of an autopsy just to see if it works.

As I see it, almost all clubs up there die for a good reason. The culture, the non-footy/sport nature of the town and being a hard place to live. Players don't want to stay for the most part, Captains and ex-Captains leave at high rate. They've had lots and lots of picks, lots of extra money (see Hunt & GAJ), their own academy giving them local talent access, top staff hand picked for them (Mark Evans) and last year state league players (and have daddy manipulate things like Geelong getting pick 19 or so for Motlop so GCS could allow the trade). There's no evidence I see that giving them a bit more of what the already have/have had access to. So I'd ask why do it?

Who benefits from giving more of all these things? The other 17 clubs don't, and in the long term I don't think GCS will either. I don't think they can turn it around because I don't see more Mulligan's fixing the problem. The foundation of the club is so very, very bad that I don't see it turning around. It's in the AFELs interest to keep a pulse up there, so on that basis of self interest I can see a bail out package being offered. How things are 30 years on from oblivion the discussion is HQ Handouts and not folding the club, and then folding Fitzroy. At least we were saved by the local people and members taking extreme action to prove we should exist, and our players deferring wages. What is the GCS admin and players doing about their situation other than asking for pick 1 this year as a priority pick?

I just don't personally see how they can turn it around now. If we must throw a bunch of picks around, I'd look to move the 18th licence elsewhere with their players and extra picks and start fresh, new board/president/admin/CEO with the experience to not repeat the same mistakes. But for the sake of argument, if we give them all these these things, will this be the last time the competition is asked to take a big hit for them (starting and this one)? Then if they fail still, we pull it. Or do we just keep giving them these things until they make final or win a flag etc? How far down the road are we with, and how committed are we that GCS must be the 18th licence?

[GVGjr]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I favour a slow rebuild that helps the competition in the longer term than just throwing 2 early picks at them each year

They got the initial recruiting approach wrong and they got the coaching appointments wrong as well. As good as Rocket was as a coach there was no way his FIFO approach was what was needed. That was always a blueprint for failure. The fact they they had to let Lyons go at the end of last year due to salary cap constraints is a poor reflection on how the club has been managed

Given them additional draft picks for an extended period, give them access to a state league player for an extended period and on top of that give them access to the emerging talent in their own back yard but most importantly get them some addition coaching to help develop the players. We can't turn a blind eye to this no matter if we think it can be turned around or not

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I favour a slow rebuild that helps the competition in the longer term than just throwing 2 early picks at them each year

They got the initial recruiting approach wrong and they got the coaching appointments wrong as well. As good as Rocket was as a coach there was no way his FIFO was what was needed. The fact they they had to let Lyons go at the end of last year due to salary cap constraints is a poor reflection on how the club has been managed

Given them additional draft picks for an extended period, give them access to a state league player for an extended period and on top of that give them access to the emerging talent in their own back yard but most importantly get them some addition coaching to help develop the players. We can't turn a blind eye to this no matter if we think it can be turned around or not

I agree that something has to happen, and not to turn eyes blind. The question is what to do about it. Either double down, or cut the losses and move the licence and invest the extra there.

[GVGjr]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I agree that something has to happen, and not to turn eyes blind. The question is what to do about it. Either double down, or cut the losses and move the licence and invest the extra there.

I'm working on the assumption we are going to try and make it work.
We can't just throw early picks at them as it's never worked. I think a gradual and sustainable build is the way to provide them some additional currency to bring in mature players. Late first round picks seem fair to me, access to a state player also seems reasonable and access to the emerging players in their won state seems to be fair. It strengthens them without impacting the competition

Getting them some salary cap relief with some controls I think helps them and an additional 2 development coaches for a period of time helps develop the talent they are bringing in.

[Twodogs]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I favour a slow rebuild that helps the competition in the longer term than just throwing 2 early picks at them each year

They got the initial recruiting approach wrong and they got the coaching appointments wrong as well. As good as Rocket was as a coach there was no way his FIFO approach was what was needed. That was always a blueprint for failure. The fact they they had to let Lyons go at the end of last year due to salary cap constraints is a poor reflection on how the club has been managed

Given them additional draft picks for an extended period, give them access to a state league player for an extended period and on top of that give them access to the emerging talent in their own back yard but most importantly get them some addition coaching to help develop the players. We can't turn a blind eye to this no matter if we think it can be turned around or not

Would you;


A/ sanction some of the picks and say that they have to swapped with other clubs for senior, ready made players that wouild improve them in the short term and may help with establishing a mature culture

and

B/ stagger the awarding of picks and say that they can use 1 this year, 2 next year and so on, as long as they show some improvement or work towards goals set as part of the process?


I agree that we can't just award them with early picks virtually as a reward for their early incompetence, but I also think that a club on the Gold Coast is untenable and the license should be awarded to another state preferably Tasmania. If they show the same amount of determination in establishing a club in Tassie as they do trying to establish one on the Coast then the club will be fine.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I'm working on the assumption we are going to try and make it work.
We can't just throw early picks at them as it's never worked. I think a gradual and sustainable build is the way to provide them some additional currency to bring in mature players. Late first round picks seem fair to me, access to a state player also seems reasonable and access to the emerging players in their won state seems to be fair. It strengthens them without impacting the competition

Getting them some salary cap relief with some controls I think helps them and an additional 2 development coaches for a period of time helps develop the talent they are bringing in.

I have no issue with your well thought response to GCS and what to do. A big issue they can't really stop is good players leaving almost every year. This churn is killing them, and there's a case to be made that maybe the players don't like living up there and working there. Ablett, Dixon, Lynch, May, Kolo, Bennell, Matera, Prestia, Smith, Caddy, Saad, Hickey, Hall, O'Meara, Lyons, Scrimshaw, etc. etc. Probably losing Jack Martin, Sam Day and others this year.

Until we can establish that players want to stay there and will stay there, I don't see giving them more good players to compensate for organisational mismanagement fixes things. The other 17 clubs will keep raiding them and the cycle continues. This is as crucial an area to the dysfunction, and money isn't or can't be everything. What are your thoughts to address talent retention?

Starting 18 'Exodus'

B: Kolo May Hall
HB: Saad Day Scrimshaw
C: Martin Caddy Bennell
HF: Prestia Dixon Lyons
F: Matera Lynch Smith
R: Hickey Ablett O'Meara

[Twodogs]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I have no issue with your well thought response to GCS and what to do. A big issue they can't really stop is good players leaving almost every year. This churn is killing them, and there's a case to be made that maybe the players don't like living up there and working there. Ablett, Dixon, Lynch, May, Kolo, Bennell, Matera, Prestia, Smith, Caddy, Saad, Hickey, Hall, O'Meara, Lyons, Scrimshaw, etc. etc. Probably losing Jack Martin, Sam Day and others this year.

Until we can establish that players want to stay there and will stay there, I don't see giving them more good players to compensate for organisational mismanagement fixes things. The other 17 clubs will keep raiding them and the cycle continues. This is as crucial an area to the dysfunction, and money isn't or can't be everything. What are your thoughts to address talent retention?

I'd actually be OK with that. Somewhere to park players and warehouse them until they prove the are capable of playing at a proper club.

[1eyedog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I'd sack em this week.

[GVGjr]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I have no issue with your well thought response to GCS and what to do. A big issue they can't really stop is good players leaving almost every year. This churn is killing them, and there's a case to be made that maybe the players don't like living up there and working there. Ablett, Dixon, Lynch, May, Kolo, Bennell, Matera, Prestia, Smith, Caddy, Saad, Hickey, Hall, O'Meara, Lyons, Scrimshaw, etc. etc. Probably losing Jack Martin, Sam Day and others this year.

Until we can establish that players want to stay there and will stay there, I don't see giving them more good players to compensate for organisational mismanagement fixes things. The other 17 clubs will keep raiding them and the cycle continues. This is as crucial an area to the dysfunction, and money isn't or can't be everything. What are your thoughts to address talent retention?

Starting 18 'Exodus'

B: Kolo May Hall
HB: Saad Day Scrimshaw
C: Martin Caddy Bennell
HF: Prestia Dixon Lyons
F: Matera Lynch Smith
R: Hickey Ablett O'Meara

Giving them some additional salary cap will help as will access to players already in Queensland will also be good for player retention
All clubs lose players, unless we make the club stronger it will continue to happen to the Suns
They've been losing players because they've been down for way too long so I do think getting some additional support with player development will go a long way of creating a stronger club environment. We only have to look as far as Brisbane for a great example of what needs to happen. I don't think this can't be fixed

[Bornadog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

Giving them some additional salary cap will help as will access to players already in Queensland will also be good for player retention
All clubs lose players, unless we make the club stronger it will continue to happen to the Suns
They've been losing players because they've been down for way too long so I do think getting some additional support with player development will go a long way of creating a stronger club environment. We only have to look as far as Brisbane for a great example of what needs to happen. I don't think this can't be fixed

I like your plan but I also worry as BT said the retention rate and how to fix it?

I don't mind the idea Wayne Carey put forward and that is in order to attract some good experienced players, perhaps GC could give up their drafted picks from last year and trade for a couple of very good players from other clubs? That could be one short term fix at least.