Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

[GVGjr]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I like your plan but I also worry as BT said the retention rate and how to fix it?

I don't mind the idea Wayne Carey put forward and that is in order to attract some good experienced players, perhaps GC could give up their drafted picks from last year and trade for a couple of very good players from other clubs? That could be one short term fix at least.

That is why I think giving them end of first round draft picks along with access to a state league player over 3 years but with the ability to trade those options for established players would given them the additional currency they need to attract players.
If they traded their access to a state league player for a solid player from another club along with a first round pick, their end of for first round pick and their early second round pick they can land established players. They will probably need some additional cap space though

Brisbane loaded up with quality youngsters and gave them a better environment and it's quickly worked, the same can happen for the Suns if they forget about the likes of putting all their eggs into the likes of GAJ.

They also need help to develop players.

[Twodogs]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I favour a slow rebuild that helps the competition in the longer term than just throwing 2 early picks at them each year

They got the initial recruiting approach wrong and they got the coaching appointments wrong as well. As good as Rocket was as a coach there was no way his FIFO approach was what was needed. That was always a blueprint for failure. The fact they they had to let Lyons go at the end of last year due to salary cap constraints is a poor reflection on how the club has been managed

Given them additional draft picks for an extended period, give them access to a state league player for an extended period and on top of that give them access to the emerging talent in their own back yard but most importantly get them some addition coaching to help develop the players. We can't turn a blind eye to this no matter if we think it can be turned around or not

Would you;


A/ sanction some of the picks and say that they have to swapped with other clubs for senior, ready made players that wouild improve them in the short term and may help with establishing a mature culture

and

B/ stagger the awarding of picks and say that they can use 1 this year, 2 next year and so on, as long as they show some improvement or work towards goals set as part of the process?


I agree that we can't just award them with early picks virtually as a reward for their early incompetence, but I also think that a club on the Gold Coast is untenable and the license should be awarded to another state preferably Tasmania. If they show the same amount of determination in establishing a club in Tassie as they do trying to establish one on the Coast then the club will be fine.

Giving them some additional salary cap will help as will access to players already in Queensland will also be good for player retention
All clubs lose players, unless we make the club stronger it will continue to happen to the Suns
They've been losing players because they've been down for way too long so I do think getting some additional support with player development will go a long way of creating a stronger club environment. We only have to look as far as Brisbane for a great example of what needs to happen. I don't think this can't be fixed

I like your plan but I also worry as BT said the retention rate and how to fix it?

I don't mind the idea Wayne Carey put forward and that is in order to attract some good experienced players, perhaps GC could give up their drafted picks from last year and trade for a couple of very good players from other clubs? That could be one short term fix at least.

I've got two kids that pretty much ignore everything I say too.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

Jarrod Harbrow, 150 games, take a bow. One positive.

[GVGjr]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

Would you;


A/ sanction some of the picks and say that they have to swapped with other clubs for senior, ready made players that wouild improve them in the short term and may help with establishing a mature culture

and

B/ stagger the awarding of picks and say that they can use 1 this year, 2 next year and so on, as long as they show some improvement or work towards goals set as part of the process?


I agree that we can't just award them with early picks virtually as a reward for their early incompetence, but I also think that a club on the Gold Coast is untenable and the license should be awarded to another state preferably Tasmania. If they show the same amount of determination in establishing a club in Tassie as they do trying to establish one on the Coast then the club will be fine.

It's as per my first post. 3 consecutive years of end of first round picks, 3 consecutive years of being able to pre-list players from the state leagues. Both of those options are able to be traded for established players. 3 consecutive years of being able to pre-list 2 under 18's players from Queensland. 3 years of additional coaching resources to be funded by the AFL and additional salary cap space to help with player retention

It cant be ongoing which is why I favor a short sharp burst of giving them more options

[Bornadog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

It's as per my first post. 3 consecutive years of end of first round picks, 3 consecutive years of being able to pre-list players from the state leagues. Both of those options are able to be traded for established players. 3 consecutive years of being able to pre-list 2 under 18's players from Queensland. 3 years of additional coaching resources to be funded by the AFL and additional salary cap space to help with player retention

It cant be ongoing which is why I favor a short sharp burst of giving them more options

I bet the other clubs won't like it.

[GVGjr]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I bet the other clubs won't like it.

The other option is to give them the first 3 picks each year at the draft for a couple of years which the other clubs certainly won't like

To me it's balanced, reasonable and has a start and end date. Basically they get access to 4 players each year, some salary cap relief to retain players and additional coaching resources to help develop players.

If it can be done at Brisbane in terms of being turned around I can't see why it can't be done at Gold Coast. They've made a heap of mistakes with recruitment, coaching and player development and the AFL must insert someone to review the opportunities to make them competitive.

[Bornadog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

The other option is to give them the first 3 picks each year at the draft for a couple of years which the other clubs certainly won't like

To me it's balanced, reasonable and has a start and end date. Basically they get access to 4 players each year, some salary cap relief to retain players and additional coaching resources to help develop players.

If it can be done at Brisbane in terms of being turned around I can't see why it can't be done at Gold Coast. They've made a heap of mistakes with recruitment, coaching and player development and the AFL must insert someone to review the opportunities to make them competitive.

Another way to look at it, is to consider, is it worth pursuing on the Gold Coast? Maybe for once the AFL have to admit they made a big mistake.

I heard a caller on SEN say she was at the game last week, and there were very few GC supporters. She said it must be heartbreaking for players to play in front of those sort of crowds. Average crowds at home have continued to fall over the past 5 plus years and are only propped up by a few opposition supporters.

I really have my doubts whether it is going to work.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

Good point. Careers will suffer being sent there. Young players are not really going to enjoy crowd support of any significance, at least not in our lifetimes.

[GVGjr]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

Another way to look at it, is to consider, is it worth pursuing on the Gold Coast? Maybe for once the AFL have to admit they made a big mistake.

I heard a caller on SEN say she was at the game last week, and there were very few GC supporters. She said it must be heartbreaking for players to play in front of those sort of crowds. Average crowds at home have continued to fall over the past 5 plus years and are only propped up by a few opposition supporters.

I really have my doubts whether it is going to work.

That's not what I'm considering though. I'm looking at what is required to make them competitive. I think 17 teams would be a disaster for us and while I'd like to see a team in Tas, I don't think it's a viable option

The easy thing is to walk away, I don't think it's the right thing though until we at least explore some of the alternatives

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

That's not what I'm considering though. I'm looking at what is required to make them competitive. I think 17 teams would be a disaster for us and while I'd like to see a team in Tas, I don't think it's a viable option

The easy thing is to walk away, I don't think it's the right thing though until we at least explore some of the alternatives

It doesn't have to be Tassie though. The GCS could become the Northern Australia Suns with the 18th licence. There's a good group of afl supporters in Cairns, Darwin and Alice Springs for their 11 games, there's certainly more than support the GCS. Give them the NT and Tiwi as an academy zone (but more like the proposed 40+ range being mooted for the WA clubs). Give them some extra cap, that works it way back to normal. The coaches you talk about. Give them the ability throw huge money at a few marquee players with AFEL marketing money. And lobby the Federal Government to invest in the grounds, create lots of jobs and support the communities on the NAS. They'd have an awesome home ground/s advantage too.

It's probably just me, but that seems more viable to grow the 18th licence supporter base and hooks into three grounds (across two states) that have a following. It might bring more indigenous players into the game, for those kids who can't or don't want to leave home but are more than talented enough for the AFEL, which is a great thing. The AFEL could start to do some really good grass roots work with a 'local' team. From a TV rights deal, they'd open up more of an audience, which makes the AFEL more money and increases their personal bonuses.

I agree, it doesn't have to be Tassie getting a licence on their own.

[hujsh]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

That's not what I'm considering though. I'm looking at what is required to make them competitive. I think 17 teams would be a disaster for us and while I'd like to see a team in Tas, I don't think it's a viable option

The easy thing is to walk away, I don't think it's the right thing though until we at least explore some of the alternatives

I disagree personally. If Tassie can sustain themselves and add that extra televised fixture but don't expand the supporter base I still think that's viable. Moreso than having 9 Melbourne teams or sinking money into teams without any supporters that don't seem to be growing at least. Though that's probably a separate thread's discussion

[Rocket Science]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

That's not what I'm considering though. I'm looking at what is required to make them competitive. I think 17 teams would be a disaster for us and while I'd like to see a team in Tas, I don't think it's a viable option

Well, speaking of viability, as BT remarked they've been given every opportunity and advantage since formation including hand-picked AFEL-sanctioned staff pulling the levers and almost two decades later they're still a soulless fabrication stained by endemic failure by any measurable standard, one that is a prolonged drain on the competition while expecting ongoing reward for ineptitude and presumably requires league-mandated success on a silver platter to remotely hope of engaging a supporter base that doesn't even exist.

The other problem the Suns have is QLD already has a club, and a suddenly very attractive one at that.

Or we can have a club in a state where the game's culture is already ingrained in the local fabric and you'd expect die-hard enough to support their team through thick and thin, not if and only if they're gifted success. The game at local level in Tasmania is desperately owed some rehabilitation and support too. These are the unspoken costs of the Suns experiment. Yes it has some challenges but if we can endlessly prop up the grotesque northern experiment for a community that doesn't care then we can equally do so for a community that does.

That said there's virtually no chance short of a bloody insurrection the AFEL will ever give up on their shitty frankenclub up north. They should be folded for pinching Harbrow and that wretched excuse for a jumper alone.

[Bornadog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

It doesn't have to be Tassie though. The GCS could become the Northern Australia Suns with the 18th licence. There's a good group of afl supporters in Cairns, Darwin and Alice Springs for their 11 games, there's certainly more than support the GCS. Give them the NT and Tiwi as an academy zone (but more like the proposed 40+ range being mooted for the WA clubs). Give them some extra cap, that works it way back to normal. The coaches you talk about. Give them the ability throw huge money at a few marquee players with AFEL marketing money. And lobby the Federal Government to invest in the grounds, create lots of jobs and support the communities on the NAS. They'd have an awesome home ground/s advantage too.

It's probably just me, but that seems more viable to grow the 18th licence supporter base and hooks into three grounds (across two states) that have a following. It might bring more indigenous players into the game, for those kids who can't or don't want to leave home but are more than talented enough for the AFEL, which is a great thing. The AFEL could start to do some really good grass roots work with a 'local' team. From a TV rights deal, they'd open up more of an audience, which makes the AFEL more money and increases their personal bonuses.

I agree, it doesn't have to be Tassie getting a licence on their own.

BT you have nailed it. This is the best solution to date. The AFL can piss off Melbourne in Darwin and the Alice, and Saints (was Dogs) out of Cairns. Forget States, Northern Australia sounds good to me.

[Happy Days]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

BT you have nailed it. This is the best solution to date. The AFL can piss off Melbourne in Darwin and the Alice, and Saints (was Dogs) out of Cairns. Forget States, Northern Australia sounds good to me.

I can't see players wanting to play for a team that has to spread their base out over such a wide area. The travel alone would be hell on the bodies.

[Bornadog]

Re: Gold Coast Suns Viability - How Long Have They Got?

I can't see players wanting to play for a team that has to spread their base out over such a wide area. The travel alone would be hell on the bodies.

West Coast and Freo travel all over Australia.