Tom Boyd actually said...

[The Underdog]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

I've heard Tom say this. Sometimes I do think he's a bit of an elitist to be honest, surely we back the recruiters over the players... however; I kind of do it too. I look at some players and think, no chance.

I think with some of the speculative/lower picks, it's going to be that it may take some time and first impressions aren't necessarily a fair indicator of what a player will become.

He did use VDM as an example of a player he thought had AFL traits it due to his elite speed.

[macca]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

I suspect it's more true for the natural players and less of an indicator for the role boys.

For instance Morris I imagine presented well at training professionally but you'd watch him running with the ball and his kicking style and have doubts whether he had it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Prestigiacomo

Morris would be one player I doubt would be picked up as a youngster in the ND or even Rookie draft, based on the various skill levels required now for defenders and durability. One being, good kicking skills . Even if 1% off physically , can be found out.

Zac Dawson(166 games) , Darren Gasper,(228 games) , Simon Prestigiacomo(233 games!) similar types of players which would be mature age rookie or SPP type pickup.
I hope Gardner can turnout to be a Morris type recruit . Anything more than 100 games is a great result.

[jeemak]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

I kind of feel it's bullshit and isn't bullshit all at once.

There's enough players who have "it" who don't make it, to be counterbalanced by those who didn't seem to who do. But it's good conversation using specific examples/ experiences that are relatively limited to explain a league and history wide phenomena.

How much experience does Tom Boyd really have? More than me, sure, but for a lot of his time in the AFL he'd have been too far up in his own shit to notice what was happening around him.

[SquirrelGrip]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

I like this discussion and he is mostly right (maybe 80/20 as Mofra said). We just love the romance of the 20. They are our favourites - Tony Liberatore, Dale Morris, Liam Picken...

It made me think though - of any given AFL list, what percentage actually "make it"? Half?

[Testekill]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

You can generally tell when someone has the attitude required to to make it within a month. It's probably harsh but you can tell who has the drive and who doesn't.

[GVGjr]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

There are players like Schache who you can see the potential in but have a hell of a job unlocking it and then there are players like Morris that don't necessarily have a high ceiling but get there because they have one or two elite traits as well. It's a hard science and not an overly accurate one.

[Mofra]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

There are players like Schache who you can see the potential in but have a hell of a job unlocking it and then there are players like Morris that don't necessarily have a high ceiling but get there because they have one or two elite traits as well. It's a hard science and not an overly accurate one.

I think that's the rub - you can be scrappy, poorly skilled, slow etc BUT you need at least one elite trait to compensate for it.

Cross - terrible acceleration but elite endurance and commitment
Picken - scrappy but super courageous and elite commitment
Boyd - plucked out of Frankston 2nds due to his 'quick hands'
Dahlhaus - I'll always maintain that no player ever managed to get back up after getting knocked down quicker than peak Dahlhaus. It meant he was never really out of the contest
Ben Hudson - magnificent beard

Players who have a deficiency but everything else seems ok seem to be the guys that just never click. Poor Brodie Moles fits in here, decent footballer but a 'chucker' (would vomit before every game due to nerves) so had that nervousness that meant he never got to his potential.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

I recall Rocket saying something similar and that Kirk was the only one in his time coaching that turned it around.

Are you concerned clubs give up on players too quickly mjp?

[GVGjr]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

I think that's the rub - you can be scrappy, poorly skilled, slow etc BUT you need at least one elite trait to compensate for it.

Cross - terrible acceleration but elite endurance and commitment
Picken - scrappy but super courageous and elite commitment
Boyd - plucked out of Frankston 2nds due to his 'quick hands'
Dahlhaus - I'll always maintain that no player ever managed to get back up after getting knocked down quicker than peak Dahlhaus. It meant he was never really out of the contest
Ben Hudson - magnificent beard

Players who have a deficiency but everything else seems ok seem to be the guys that just never click. Poor Brodie Moles fits in here, decent footballer but a 'chucker' (would vomit before every game due to nerves) so had that nervousness that meant he never got to his potential.

I'll just add a few more comments to some of the players you listed

Cross - Great hands, helped other players become better.
Picken - Terrific endurance and versatile, went from a defender to a forward and just found a way to contribute
Boyd - Unrelenting focus, demanded others to get serious. Did whatever role that was asked of him.

[mjp]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

I recall Rocket saying something similar and that Kirk was the only one in his time coaching that turned it around.

Are you concerned clubs give up on players too quickly mjp?

Well....I know players think like this. But I actually think the opposite...I think 'clubs' hold on to players too long and are too quick to give them a second contract...

I hate a lot about the system right now and I think things are getting 'worse' for players who aren't 'ready' at age 18. It's actually getting impossible and I'm not sure the game is benefitting...

Those comments relate to another discussion though.

[Testekill]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

I think that's the rub - you can be scrappy, poorly skilled, slow etc BUT you need at least one elite trait to compensate for it.

Cross - terrible acceleration but elite endurance and commitment
Picken - scrappy but super courageous and elite commitment
Boyd - plucked out of Frankston 2nds due to his 'quick hands'
Dahlhaus - I'll always maintain that no player ever managed to get back up after getting knocked down quicker than peak Dahlhaus. It meant he was never really out of the contest
Ben Hudson - magnificent beard

Players who have a deficiency but everything else seems ok seem to be the guys that just never click. Poor Brodie Moles fits in here, decent footballer but a 'chucker' (would vomit before every game due to nerves) so had that nervousness that meant he never got to his potential.

Dahlhaus was like a rubber ball in his first couple of seasons and his agility was also fantastic. Unfortunately that led to his body breaking down and us being more than willing to move him on.

[Dog]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

Tom Boyd should probably stick to lighter and more empowering topics.

[JanLorMill]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

Tom Boyd should probably stick to lighter and more empowering topics.

Strange comment.
Not allowed to give an informed opinion?

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

Tom Boyd should probably stick to lighter and more empowering topics.

For a first post. Courageous Dog.

[Dog]

Re: Tom Boyd actually said...

Strange comment.
Not allowed to give an informed opinion?

I say he should stay in his lane, to be frank. As relating to his role as a mental health advocate.

From the perspective of any recent draftee into any AFL environment.