Fevola faces axe from Lions

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

Yeah they do. They (probably Carlton more so) allowed him to get away with so much that the line became a blur for him.

Historically all clubs have allowed their stars some leniency as the clubs sucess is directly linked to their on field sucess. I can't remember the details but Ablett Snr basically did what he liked down a Geelong, but only because he continued to deliver the desired on field results.

Its only in recent times that all clubs have had to make a stand and provide a level playing field to all players regardless of their on field value. Collingwood and its treatment of Didak and Shaw during the Finals last year is a good example of this.

Fevola is a product of his own making, who clearly lacks the ability to differentiate between reality and the Bubble with which he lives in as a star AFL player.

To suggest that the AFL, Carlton, or the Lions are guilty of aiding and abetting his crimes is tantamount to agreeing that licensed gun dealer is guilty of manslaughter when his client uses the gun to Kill.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

Not sure how Chris grant and fev are related here. A lot Fev's behaviour is a product of his Carlton days and a lack discipline on their behalf and therefore the afl.

I was providing an argument in the reverse sense to yours that the AFL should be held responsible for Fevs actions.

Can the AFL lay claim to Grants exemplary behaviour?

[Topdog]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

Historically all clubs have allowed their stars some leniency as the clubs sucess is directly linked to their on field sucess. I can't remember the details but Ablett Snr basically did what he liked down a Geelong, but only because he continued to deliver the desired on field results.

To suggest that the AFL, Carlton, or the Lions are guilty of aiding and abetting his crimes is tantamount to agreeing that licensed gun dealer is guilty of manslaughter when his client uses the gun to Kill.

Its nothing of the sort and you are just being stupid comparing the 2.

Geelong and the AFL both feel guilty for letting Ablett do as he pleased and he is one of the reasons that things are / have been changing.

No one is suggesting that Fev doesn't have to shoulder the majority of the blame but the AFL and Carlton, maybe even Brisbane must take some responsibility for his continued idiocy.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

Its nothing of the sort and you are just being stupid comparing the 2.

I'll agree my example is extreme, but the premise of the analogy is far from stupid.

No one is suggesting that Fev doesn't have to shoulder the majority of the blame but the AFL and Carlton, maybe even Brisbane must take some responsibility for his continued idiocy.

The AFL, Carlton, and the Lions have no case to answer in respect of Brendan's Fevolas antics.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

I was providing an argument in the reverse sense to yours that the AFL should be held responsible for Fevs actions.

Can the AFL lay claim to Grants exemplary behaviour?

How is Grant the reverse? If one is exemplary than the reverse should be stuffing up all the time and paying for it.
They are both human beings, I'm sure Grant isn't perfect and Fev has done some good things.

I also know that without AFL we wouldn't know who Grant is.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

The AFL, Carlton, and the Lions have no case to answer in respect of Brendan's Fevolas antics.

They were happy to feed him(pay him) and well whilst he was a good player and star attraction . If he is so bad then why wasn't disciplined properly by them earlier.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

China doesn't exactly have a comparable open media though - I dare say if they want to cover up a scandel it would be much easier.
We do tend to deify our sports stars more than almost any other country in the world.

Well this is very true. It's like having a society full of papparazi. Everyone has a phone with a camera, twitter and facebook. All you have to do is drink a glass of water before a game like G. Ablett did and everyone is on your case.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

The Womens Chinese swim team says HI!

Yes but they do it to WIN.
Baker, Lenny Hayes, Fev,Ben cousins, say hello back.
Their antics are hardly performance enhancing!

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

The Womens Chinese swim team says HI!

Haha - quite right. But hey, at least they are trying to win!
Baker, Lenny Hayes, Fev,Ben cousins, say hello back.
Their antics are hardly performance enhancing!

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

How is Grant the reverse? If one is exemplary than the reverse should be stuffing up all the time and paying for it.
They are both human beings, I'm sure Grant isn't perfect and Fev has done some good things.

I also know that without AFL we wouldn't know who Grant is.

I'll try one more time.

If the AFL are to be held responsible for Fevola's behaviour then my argument is that they should also be lauded for making Chris Grant a Model AFL Citizen as well.

My under lying argument here is that Chris Grant has an intrinsic set of morals and values (perhaps instilled in him by his parents) that enable him to function and work within the AFL behavioural guidelines easily.

Conversely IMO Brendan Fevola does not and that his own existing personal values and ethics allow him to continually cross the line.

I agree with oyu however that without the AFL we woudl not know who Chris Grant is, unless of course you were a member of the Daylesford Doggies

[Mofra]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

Well this is very true. It's like having a society full of papparazi. Everyone has a phone with a camera, twitter and facebook. All you have to do is drink a glass of water before a game like G. Ablett did and everyone is on your case.

Or, if you're a coach, eat a sandwich a la Mark Thompson - I still can't believe the media went into a frenzy about a freaking sandwich.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

They were happy to feed him(pay him) and well whilst he was a good player and star attraction . If he is so bad then why wasn't disciplined properly by them earlier.

I would argue that he was disciplined by both Carlton, Brisbane, and the AFL to the extent that they could under the terms of his contract or the club/AFL guidelines.

If my memory serves me correctly I believe that when he got into trouble over in Ireland he was immediately sent home (not sure about a fine?). From memory he was also fined and suspended for a period of time for urinating on the window.

I actually feel sorry for Carlton and Brisbane, they are the ones that have and will suffer the most.

If it were the eave of the Finals and Barry Hall gets caught urinating on Jimmy Wongs window in Footscray and the club suspend him for the remainder of the season, who do you think suffer the most.

Barry, or the Club?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

I'll try one more time.

If the AFL are to be held responsible for Fevola's behaviour then my argument is that they should also be lauded for making Chris Grant a Model AFL Citizen as well.

My under lying argument here is that Chris Grant has an intrinsic set of morals and values (perhaps instilled in him by his parents) that enable him to function and work within the AFL behavioural guidelines easily.

Conversely IMO Brendan Fevola does not and that his own existing personal values and ethics allow him to continually cross the line.

I agree with oyu however that without the AFL we woudl not know who Chris Grant is, unless of course you were a member of the Daylesford Doggies

Firstly I never said that AFL were fully responsible for who Fevola is. Just believe the AFL didn't act strongly enoiugh and also helped his transfer to Brisbane.
Just like everyone, you are product of the environments you are in, be it your family, friends, work and no doubt AFL environment have some influence on who Fev is.
Your Chris Grant example I don't understand.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

I would argue that he was disciplined by both Carlton, Brisbane, and the AFL to the extent that they could under the terms of his contract or the club/AFL guidelines.

Who said he wasn't disciplined? I just say he obviously wasn't disciplined enough and/or didn't get the message(both his and the clubs/afl fault).

If my memory serves me correctly I believe that when he got into trouble over in Ireland he was immediately sent home (not sure about a fine?). From memory he was also fined and suspended for a period of time for urinating on the window.

That trip to Ireland is a reward in the first place. A OS booze fest. A fine would have to be huge otherwise its a slap on the wrist to players rumoured to be 900K.

How many games did Fev miss for the urination event? My guess is 0.

I actually feel sorry for Carlton and Brisbane, they are the ones that have and will suffer the most.

Sorry? Why? They are the stupid one. 14 others steered clear because they knew what he was like and his asking price. Carlton raised him from a 17yo and could have nipped him in the bud years back.
I'm sorry/jealous he kicked goals against us cos he is very talented when on his game.

If it were the eave of the Finals and Barry Hall gets caught urinating on Jimmy Wongs window in Footscray and the club suspend him for the remainder of the season, who do you think suffer the most.

Barry, or the Club?

There you go again with hypotheticals that aren't real or relevent.

You want something real? Then use Akers situation at the club. Do you think the club did the right thing? We mighted have suffered short term but its for the better of the club and therefore we suffer less long term.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Fevola faces axe from Lions

I would argue that he was disciplined by both Carlton, Brisbane, and the AFL to the extent that they could under the terms of his contract or the club/AFL guidelines.

If my memory serves me correctly I believe that when he got into trouble over in Ireland he was immediately sent home (not sure about a fine?). From memory he was also fined and suspended for a period of time for urinating on the window.

I actually feel sorry for Carlton and Brisbane, they are the ones that have and will suffer the most.

If it were the eave of the Finals and Barry Hall gets caught urinating on Jimmy Wongs window in Footscray and the club suspend him for the remainder of the season, who do you think suffer the most.

Barry, or the Club?

This is where the Shaw/Didak thing last year gets interesting.

Sure there was pain for Collingwood at the time but both have since come out and just about had career best years and they won the flag.