Michael Talia

[Dry Rot]

Re: Michael Talia

We won't be drafting a lot of players this year

Not sure about that.

IIRC Darley, A Cordy and Fuller have been delisted.

Talia one way or another is gone, seems Grant is too.

That's 5 gone. And Bev has said Minson will be with us next year if he wants to (Will may be seeking a new gig) and I've seen rumours that the club is open to trading Hrovat.

So it looks like we will need 5-7 new players on the main list this year. No rookie upgrades this year.

Trading wise, it looks like Carlisle is going elsewhere and there aren't too may ruck options left (Luenberger going elsewhere, Clarke re-signed, ditto Kruezner, Martin a required player).

All that leaves possibly Henderson or some unknown Biggs type trade for us.

So are we going to have draft more players than we want to in a weak draft?

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Michael Talia

Would we be willing to experiment on an American prospect for the ruck, like some clubs?
The other thing is, I would rather someone slightly shorter, but mobile in the ruck who can give us a contest around the ground, and at least break even in the centre. Nic Nat and Sandilands show that you can dominate taps and still not get the midfield clearances. Rather have someone who can run as well.

I know it's cruel in a way, but I hope nothing comes up from the investigation in some ways, if it helps us get a decent trade for Talia.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Michael Talia

I'd highly doubt that .
Would think we need a ruck ready to go, not who'll need 5 years to understand the gane

[G-Mo77]

Re: Michael Talia

Would we be willing to experiment on an American prospect for the ruck, like some clubs?
The other thing is, I would rather someone slightly shorter, but mobile in the ruck who can give us a contest around the ground, and at least break even in the centre. Nic Nat and Sandilands show that you can dominate taps and still not get the midfield clearances. Rather have someone who can run as well.

I know it's cruel in a way, but I hope nothing comes up from the investigation in some ways, if it helps us get a decent trade for Talia.

Waste of time and money IMO.

[soupman]

Re: Michael Talia

I think we should recruit an international rookie as a ruck prospect.

I believe they don't take up a normal rookie spot, at least for the first year, so essentially its a free hit.

Ideally I would like to see our mix of ruckmen being three who are capable of being first ruck, ideally one clear first choice (ie. Martin), one competent backup (ie. Campbell), one developing who could still play if needed (ie. someone like Hannath) and an international rookie.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Michael Talia

I think we should recruit an international rookie as a ruck prospect.

I believe they don't take up a normal rookie spot, at least for the first year, so essentially its a free hit.

Ideally I would like to see our mix of ruckmen being three who are capable of being first ruck, ideally one clear first choice (ie. Martin), one competent backup (ie. Campbell), one developing who could still play if needed (ie. someone like Hannath) and an international rookie.

Yep, it's just the rookie minimum wage to factor in, for cost. They'd take a lot of coaches time and energy to get them ready, so we'd need to work out if we have enough coaching depth to allow for said amount of resources put into them. Some are spuds, but I guess you've got to try a Jim Stynes to find a Jim Stynes type international tall player (yes Gaelic vs basketball).

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Michael Talia

I'd highly doubt that .
Would think we need a ruck ready to go, not who'll need 5 years to understand the gane

Sports like NFL and Basketball are equally as complex as ours. American College grads are no slouch when it comes to study. If we can find someone who will adapt, has experience at a high level of sport, then I don't see why it can't be done. Pyke seemed to work. Most Rucks do their best work with their hands anyway. If Lin Jong can learn to kick as well as he does now, so can someone else.

[Mofra]

Re: Michael Talia

Would we be willing to experiment on an American prospect for the ruck, like some clubs?
The other thing is, I would rather someone slightly shorter, but mobile in the ruck who can give us a contest around the ground, and at least break even in the centre. Nic Nat and Sandilands show that you can dominate taps and still not get the midfield clearances. Rather have someone who can run as well.

I agree - which is why for the love of god I hope we're not looking at the out-of-contract Robbie Warnock

[Sedat]

Re: Michael Talia

I agree - which is why for the love of god I hope we're not looking at the out-of-contract Robbie Warnock

The team that has won the last 3 flags has had battlers in the ruck - they also had battlers in the ruck in their 2008 flag. Geelong never had absolute elite tap ruckmen in any of their 3 flags either. There's a lot of talk about the importance of top-shelf ruckmen but not a lot of premiership evidence to support the theory.

[Mofra]

Re: Michael Talia

The team that has won the last 3 flags has had battlers in the ruck - they also had battlers in the ruck in their 2008 flag. Geelong never had absolute elite tap ruckmen in any of their 3 flags either. There's a lot of talk about the importance of top-shelf ruckmen but not a lot of premiership evidence to support the theory.

Brad Ottens?
Traded a player out so Geelong could offer two first round picks for Ottens. Their support forward/ruck (Cam Mooney) was also a trade in.

One thing is clear - you need an effective ruck/forward. Hale was part of the Hale/McIntosh duo that was supremely effective at one point.
McEvoy was a trade in - Shane Savage and a first round pick.
Mumford as a trade in by Sydney too.

If anything, it seems to advocate trading for (even over-paying) for a mature ruckman.

[1eyedog]

Re: Michael Talia

Sydeny identified they needed a quality ruckman in order to push for a Premiership, they traded for Jolly out of Melbourne.

Collingwood did the same and got him out of Sydney.

Critical player in both their premierships.

[Ozza]

Re: Michael Talia

Sydeny identified they needed a quality ruckman in order to push for a Premiership, they traded for Jolly out of Melbourne.

Collingwood did the same and got him out of Sydney.

Critical player in both their premierships.

I was at a sportsmans lunch on Thursday, and Dane Swan was one of the panellists.
He was asked whether he could point to any reason why they hadn't been even more successful and won more than the 1 flag in his time at Collingwood. His response was that (paraphrasing a bit) 'In my 15 years at Collingwood, we probably haven't had the ruck quality apart from in 2010. Jolls was good in 2010 and helped us get that flag, but he was putrid in all the other years he was at the club'.

(I'm not advocating one way or the other on the importance of rucks...but thought it was a relevant anectdote).

[1eyedog]

Re: Michael Talia

Interesting thanks for that. My feeling is that Collingwood should be grateful for that flag and thank goodness that Jolly had such a great year. I'll take one great year and a flag over three putrid years.

[Sedat]

Re: Michael Talia

Brad Ottens?
Traded a player out so Geelong could offer two first round picks for Ottens. Their support forward/ruck (Cam Mooney) was also a trade in.

One thing is clear - you need an effective ruck/forward. Hale was part of the Hale/McIntosh duo that was supremely effective at one point.
McEvoy was a trade in - Shane Savage and a first round pick.
Mumford as a trade in by Sydney too.

If anything, it seems to advocate trading for (even over-paying) for a mature ruckman.

Agree 100% on this. Was commenting more that the pure tap ruckmen (eg: Sandi, NicNat) are so heavily relied on by their teams and are more easily neutralized in finals by the work horse types who can also get dangerous elsewhere.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Michael Talia

Agree 100% on this. Was commenting more that the pure tap ruckmen (eg: Sandi, NicNat) are so heavily relied on by their teams and are more easily neutralized in finals by the work horse types who can also get dangerous elsewhere.

Bad. Bad. Leeroy Brown.