Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Terrific post Mantis - well thought out and covered a lot of the key areas.

For mine, we really do need to back up and get a solid win here. Wins at the start of the season - particularly percentage boosting ones are crucial if we want to play in September and we can really set our season up over the first 4 weeks.

Melbourne are a side, who regardless of ladder position always seem to match up really well on us. They have some exciting small forwards, an underrated midfield group and a fairly average backline. We need to be mindful of them getting their run on and having space to move in, as players like Davey, McLean, Jones, Sylvia and Bate will all kill us if they have the time and space they need to move freely. I get the feeling Melbourne will be very keen to atone for last weeks shocker and will really look to clamp down our running style and force us to work harder for each possession and goal. If they go the other way and try to have a shootout with us, we'll crush them. Their best bet is to play contested football, create lots of stoppages and hope their strength around the stoppages can get the ball moving forward into some open space.

I'd like to see Boyd go to McLean, as Mantis mentioned. I'd like to have Westy sit on Jones a bit, make him accountable around the packs and around the ground as Scotty will keep working hard to make himself an option and I don't think Jones has quite the fitness and mental discipline to really stick with him at this stage.

McDonald will get blown out of the water by Cooney if we do the team things. McDonald is a slow, 31 y.o - if Adam can get half a step clear of him, it's all over. We need some good blocking applied in the midfield to allow Adam first run (and clear run) at the ball.

Daniel Cross – Spent most of the game on the wing where he is a duck out of water in open play. Can’t run, can’t kick, get’s the ball and stops. I know it’s early in the season and the players around will slow, but Daniel needs to get himself back into the centre square to where he can use his ball winning abilities to the advantage of the team.

I'm going to have to disagree with this point. For mine, our best midfield group contains one of West/Boyd/Cross in the square, with Cooney and then one of Akermanis/Griffen/Higgins/Eagleton etc. Cross is not going to be a given starter in the centre square at every bounce, and he shouldn't be either as at the moment I think we have a few other options who can read and clear the ball just as well, but also have the acceleration and more reliable disposal and penetration by foot. Crossy just needs to re-invent himself a little bit. He needs to be more confident to take the first option whether its by foot or hand. He needs to work very hard on his defensive aspects and really shut down his direct opponent and limit his influence and if he's struggling for touch, he should start dropping back into the D50 where his marking and attack on the contest will be useful. He'll still play roles in the centre square obviously at some stage, but he is no longer a given to play 85% of the game there.


As far as the replacement for Eagleton, I guess the big question is what do we need - for mine, we need another runner as Eagleton's early run was crucial to getting us up in the first Qtr. That means the options are possibly - Harbrow, Callan, Stack, O'Keefe and Ward. O'Keefe and Ward are probably a little behind the 8 ball as they haven't had a full pre-season, but both have shown a lot thus far that they could come in and play a role. If Harbrow is fit, he has to get the nod, whilst someone like Callan could come in and take a defensive stopper role and really help free up someone like Hargrave or Griffen to go further upfield for longer durations.

Murphy could be a vital swingman too - if we're looking in trouble down back and could potentially be a decent match up for someone like Robertson imo.

The other bloke that I would have a question mark over is Addison - his attack on the ball is good, but for mine he just didn't do enough last weekend. I think we have to persist with him at this stage, as there aren't too many other options that I think offer us a lot more, but he really needs a good day out.

[wimberga]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Great thread mantis, we all here appreciate your otstanding effort.

Who norally plays on Davey? he can be so dangerous, as can Robertson. for mind, Morris should take robertson and shaggy (if not moved to the wing, which would be a good move anyway) take Davey.

That said,the stats read that melboure drew hawthorn 32-32 for centre clearances. not always hte most indicative stat obviously, but seems like either the hawks, whose defence is not great, played excellent, or hawks midfield pressured excellent. Im guessing a combination. Yes Dees will get a few midfielders back, but if Big Will, Huddo, Cooney, Cross, Aker, Griff etc can all keep things tight and win a majoriy of the clearances it will og along way towards a domineering win.

Im not too worried about he matchups in our forward line as i dont think ti will deviate much from Johnno, Gia, Minson, Welsh, Hill, Higgins/aker.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Great thread Mantis.

As for match-ups i'll throw up with Eagle out possibly Stack to come in and both he and Josh Hill have a run with Davey. Whilst i don't think its absolute that we will win, i think we can afford to blood our young aboroiginal boys to the big time players and playing on someone like Davey could show them where their defensive game is and what they have to do to have an attacking game like his - And they have the speed to go with him. It also keeps us quick on the ground and when Josh Hill was killing it last week McLeod went back on him, so it can also be an attacking option. I think it's a good opportunity for both boys and a good balance for the team, i think we have enough height has Mantis has shown.

Again, great thread. This is WOOF is by far the best.

[soupman]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

That said,the stats read that melboure drew hawthorn 32-32 for centre clearances. not always hte most indicative stat obviously, but seems like either the hawks, whose defence is not great, played excellent, or hawks midfield pressured excellent. Im guessing a combination. Yes Dees will get a few midfielders back, but if Big Will, Huddo, Cooney, Cross, Aker, Griff etc can all keep things tight and win a majoriy of the clearances it will og along way towards a domineering win.

This worries me. This means either Melbourne have a shocking forward set-up or like you said Hawthorn played really well in defence or pressured them really well out of the midfield.

Regarding Bruce on Johnno if Bruce is underdone we should play Johnno further up the ground for the first 2-3 quarters to tire Bruce out before swinging Johnno up forward.

[Mantis]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

I'm going to have to disagree with this point. For mine, our best midfield group contains one of West/Boyd/Cross in the square, with Cooney and then one of Akermanis/Griffen/Higgins/Eagleton etc. Cross is not going to be a given starter in the centre square at every bounce, and he shouldn't be either as at the moment I think we have a few other options who can read and clear the ball just as well, but also have the acceleration and more reliable disposal and penetration by foot. Crossy just needs to re-invent himself a little bit. He needs to be more confident to take the first option whether its by foot or hand. He needs to work very hard on his defensive aspects and really shut down his direct opponent and limit his influence and if he's struggling for touch, he should start dropping back into the D50 where his marking and attack on the contest will be useful. He'll still play roles in the centre square obviously at some stage, but he is no longer a given to play 85% of the game there.

Ok, then perhaps I was a tad harsh on Cross, I really do like him as a player, but his 2nd qtr in particular on Sunday was mistake ridden and one of the reasons why we let Adelaide back in the game..

I have watched Cross at training and he is a pretty good kick to position, but come game day he freezes up and has no confidence in his ability to deliver the ball by foot. In open play it is worse as he stops our flow and allows the opposition to apply more pressure up the field.

I am of the belief, especially at this time of the year that we can only have one of West or Cross on the ground at any given time. This time is to spent in the centre, doing what they do best which is feeding the ball out to our runners and applying offensive and defensive pressure at the clearances. Neither are suited to playing in other positions around the ground due to there limitations.

I suppose I have gotten off the original topic, but I feel it needs to be covered.

[Go_Dogs]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Ok, then perhaps I was a tad harsh on Cross, I really do like him as a player, but his 2nd qtr in particular on Sunday was mistake ridden and one of the reasons why we let Adelaide back in the game..

I have watched Cross at training and he is a pretty good kick to position, but come game day he freezes up and has no confidence in his ability to deliver the ball by foot. In open play it is worse as he stops our flow and allows the opposition to apply more pressure up the field.

I am of the belief, especially at this time of the year that we can only have one of West or Cross on the ground at any given time. This time is to spent in the centre, doing what they do best which is feeding the ball out to our runners and applying offensive and defensive pressure at the clearances. Neither are suited to playing in other positions around the ground due to there limitations.

I suppose I have gotten off the original topic, but I feel it needs to be covered.

Yes, his 2nd qtr was quite disappointing, but he was not alone. 90% of our players made simple errors by hand or foot during this period, Cross should be held to a higher standard though and as such needs to be held liable for his mistakes.


As far as only one of West/Cross being on the field at a given time, in theory it sounds ok, but I just don't think we have - at this stage - enough hard bodies that work hard both ways, and as such, we need both on the ground for the majority of the game.

The other point I think is important is, that besides the centre bounce, every other stoppage can be attended by any other player, and as such Cross and West can follow the ball in these instances and get involved in the stoppages around the ground. When these stoppages occur there is often 12-14 players crowding around, and they'll both be needed in these situations.

My point about him not playing the centre square as much was basically for the reason that I think we are more effective and quicker with our ball movement with only one of those types of players in our combination for the centre clearance. FWIW, Hudson also offers the ability to pretty much play the role that West and Cross do in the middle on the bottom of packs, and he too can help that aspect.

Off the wing, he can use his hard running, link up skills and marking to advantage and can still play a big role in the stoppages around the ground and be mindful of an opposition key player too.

[hujsh]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

I'm stating to like West's kicks. While can can't give the ball a roost from outside 50 he has a neat kick and can hit a target in the forward 50 (all based on Sundays game)

[LostDoggy]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

The thing that worried me alot last week was seeing the crows bring it in along the wing and flanks only to see them square it up to the corridor 40 - 45 out to see 2 - 4 receivers waiting unattended. This happened on a few occasions did anyone else notice this? We can't afford to do that week in week out.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Thanks for the detailed preview Mantis.

I think the question of who we play on Davey is another key match-up. He slaughtered us in both games last year, the first playing as an attacking defender, the second his more usual role up forward. We can play Morris on him but we might need him to take one of their talls.

The Dees have also shown a liking for taking us on in shoot-out situations, so I'd like Eade to have us really trying to shut them down. If we can pressure them like it sounds we did Adelaide for 3 quarters or so, then a size-able win is in the offing. If we let them get their tails up early then it's going to be more of a struggle.

Sylvia ran amok on an underdone Griffen in our first meeting last year and almost won the game for them. Be interesting to see if we give Griff a chance to make amends. I'd also like to know how Hudson generally goes against Jeff White. We don't have anyone who can match him around the ground, though perhaps our Wight could run with him with Hudson dropping back a kick behind play as he did last week. Jeff White's fairly short for a ruckman these days, so I reckon the match-committee might be tempted to bring in Street who should just be able to out-reach him. I hope they don't though, as I think we're much better balanced without Street in the team and Minson certainly did at least ok in his ruck stints.

Feels like a pretty significant game in the context of the season despite the fact that it's only round 2. We've got a chance to get some early momentum and to really build some confidence.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Well done Mantis, one of the best posts on WOOF.

I had to laugh and agree with your comment about Carroll. What a silly haircut - if he's going to sport something that stupid, he'd at least want to be a quality player ... but he isn't. Plays a few good games a year, but really, he's an average player.

I agree with basically everything you've said. Cooney & Griffen are the big ones here. If both can break free & run the lines, we should win the game. It's important for Coons to back up last week, he's had difficulties with backing up BOG's but now that he's fully fit, it's something we should begin to expect from him. He's a great player, a guy that could easily push himself as an elite midfielder of the competition. Griffen's run & carry will be pivotal too. Melbourne are a youngish and one paced side, so his game breaking ability is important.

Another week under the belt of Gilbee will hold him in goos stead. He was a bit shakey in periods last week, but I expect Gilbee to be back to his best. His pin point passing is a feature and if he can do this, we'll be much better placed to pick up the win. Harris will be thankful for getting through last week too, battled hard which is a credit to him.

Our pace & intensity are the two keys. IMO we should smash The Dees for pace all over the ground, they've got a dodgy backline and realistically, Johnson/Welsh/Minson/Murphy/Aker/Higgins/Gia should cause huge problems. In defence I'd expect Gilbee/Hargrave/Griffen to burn their opponents on the rebound too. This is an area Rocket will probably look to exploit because although The Dees gave a few talls in Neitz, Holland & Newton, they aren't particularly damaging. Harris should be able to easily cover Neitz who IMO will struggle this year. Hargrave will probably get Newton, and on the rebound, really should murder Newton. Newton's not bad in the air but is very slow to get back up after a contest and I question his defensive efforts. Hargrave or Gilbee should make life hell for him. Holland will probably get Wight and Robertson Morris.

Moloney, Bruce, Green, McLean & Green are quality players who can be very damaging through the midfield, but they're pretty one paced. Green has a bit of toe but he can fault under pressure. The rest would struggle to keep up with the likes of Cooney & Griffen, an area we should really look to exploit. Hudson will be important at ground level & stoppages, an area Melbourne are pretty good at.

Anything less than a 6 goal win would be disappointing in my books. In order to take the next step as a quality football side, we desperately need to account for sides that we should beat - and not simply by a few goals. The Dees will be hard early but we have far too much talent up forward and pace through the midfield, so as long as The Dogs intensity is up (which they've identified a fair bit, referring to last years Rd 2/3 defeats after Rd1) then we should come away with a good victory. This game's important for mine; if they've learnt & matured from last year, we'll see a 6+ goal win. If we stumble over the line like we have for a number of years against ordinary sides, then not a lot's changed.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Thanks for the detailed preview Mantis.

I think the question of who we play on Davey is another key match-up. He slaughtered us in both games last year, the first playing as an attacking defender, the second his more usual role up forward. We can play Morris on him but we might need him to take one of their talls.

Ah yes, forgot to include this in my post above.

Davey is a dangerous player and generally plays pretty well against us. He's one of few Melbourne players to have genuine pace - explosive pace for that matter. He can play all over the ground but I'd expect him to have stints in the midfield and play as a crumber around Neitz/Holland/Newton. Morris as you said RT is an option, although I can recall Morris getting a little lost last time he played on him. Either way, Davey is a player we need to keep quiet.

Sylvia will be looking to atone for poor behaviour and he can be a quality player, although a little hit and miss. Great pair of hands and runs hard, proved to almost be the match winner in one of our games last year. Somebody to keep in check, and again Morris is a good option. It depends how Robertson is playing though, because Morris would likely go to him first. Hargrave probably gets Sylvia first up, he'll need to do a good job.

The positive thing throughout the week so far is that all supporters and more importantly, all Dogs players/officials have identified this week as a crucial game for improving as a football side. Big opportunity to gain confidence, membership & belief that they're improving on not only '07, but '06 too because as I said, we've had a bad habit of bringing ordinary sides into the game and often dropping them. To be a good football side, we've got to beat them - and beat them well.

[Mantis]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Davey is a dangerous player and generally plays pretty well against us. He's one of few Melbourne players to have genuine pace - explosive pace for that matter. He can play all over the ground but I'd expect him to have stints in the midfield and play as a crumber around Neitz/Holland/Newton. Morris as you said RT is an option, although I can recall Morris getting a little lost last time he played on him. Either way, Davey is a player we need to keep quiet.

Who get's Davey then? Possibly Addison?

I agree that Morris needs to pick up a taller player probably someone like Robertson.

Sylvia will be looking to atone for poor behaviour and he can be a quality player, although a little hit and miss. Great pair of hands and runs hard, proved to almost be the match winner in one of our games last year. Somebody to keep in check, and again Morris is a good option. It depends how Robertson is playing though, because Morris would likely go to him first. Hargrave probably gets Sylvia first up, he'll need to do a good job.

Agree Hargrave will get first go, but we don't have a lot of depth in the back half. Could Griffen get the job again, may hurt him going the other way?

[The Underdog]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Is anyone else concerned that it's likely to be wet and supposedly windy?
We really aren't built for those sort of conditions and Melbourne's midfield strength is well, their strength. It will eliminate our pace somewhat, we also have a pretty ordinary record in wet weather in the last few years (I'm sure somone will come up with some stat to refute that but it's my recollection that we've been beaten up in those sort of games on the most part).

[westdog54]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Who get's Davey then? Possibly Addison?

I agree that Morris needs to pick up a taller player probably someone like Robertson.



Agree Hargrave will get first go, but we don't have a lot of depth in the back half. Could Griffen get the job again, may hurt him going the other way?

If Addison goes to Davey he will be left for dead.

Griffen has the speed to go with him and the skill to hurt him going the other way.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Rd 2 2008 - Melbourne vs Western Bulldogs match preview

Not worried about the wet we seemed to be get in and under alot more in previous years and alot more physcal on an the field. iIf we keep that up and get first hands on the ball it is always going to be hard for the other team to get ahead.