Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

I thought it was a free too. And the deliberate OOB paid against Suckling, from which Rioli scored a freak goal was a very poor decision. As I saw it Suckling was not in control of the ball and was actually pushed from behind and this caused the ball to cross the line.
But those are not the major reason we lost. We missed very get-able set shots and some handballs and kicks to advantage, from which we should have goaled, were well astray. Hawthorn know they will have to fight for every possession next time we meet. They will not feel comfortable at all knowing they will likely come up against us again

We smashed them in Cont possessions and clearances and they are supposed to have one of the toughest midfields. They know they were lucky to win, as we handed them the game.

[Happy Days]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

It wasn't the leaving of Sicily that hurt us - that's a symptom of how footy's played these days and having numbers back would have made it more likely the ball would pass through our half forward and wing area. What screwed us was the fact we couldn't kill a loose ball after the Hawks dropped a chest mark from a mongrel kick out.

At the ten second mark of the video BAD posted you see Jordan Roughead crowd the ball completely unnecessarily leaving Burgoyne to slip outside and clear. That created the clean ball practically under no pressure. It reminded me of the type of things we used to do in Bmac's years when we were unbelievably easy to score against.

I posted in the premiership thread that we're not disciplined enough to think our way through these situations as yet. We desperately need to be as instances like these up the ground make us easy to score against down the ground.

I like to think I'm a football modernist, but opting for a forward press over two men back with a minute to go in a game you're WINNING is really, really stupid.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

We smashed them in Cont possessions and clearances and they are supposed to have one of the toughest midfields. They know they were lucky to win, as we handed them the game.

Absolutely.

We're getting hung up on the last scoring shot of the game or pressure/decision-making/clean possession as if thats where the game was lost. We lost it as simply as it sounds because we didn't put it on the score board. Its nowhere near as bad as its being made out to be. We simply have to finish our shots on goal.

At one point we scored 8 goals from stoppages and only two from open play. They were the opposite.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

Absolutely.

We're getting hung up on the last scoring shot of the game or pressure/decision-making/clean possession as if thats where the game was lost. We lost it as simply as it sounds because we didn't put it on the score board. Its nowhere near as bad as its being made out to be. We simply have to finish our shots on goal.

That is at the very core of the game. If we don't put it through the big sticks enough, we're going to find it hard.

[jeemak]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

I like to think I'm a football modernist, but opting for a forward press over two men back with a minute to go in a game you're WINNING is really, really stupid.

No it's not. You maintain a half ground forward press and you do the disciplined thing and hold your space after the ball is kicked in and in dispute - which we didn't do. What makes you think with four minutes to go we'd have had the energy to get back and keep up with the footy as it flew out of our our forward line over the heads of defenders running back?

If you open up the first 70-80m from a kick-out against a side like the Hawks they're going to be within 20m of goal within ten seconds. They're that bloody good. The reason you play that way against them ALL game is because it's the best way to stop them from using their obviously superior foot skills. They also had a tendency to take contested marks forward for some reason throughout the second half and that really hurt us, so I'm glad we set up for that not to happen.

I was sitting behind the Dogs goals on level three and in a perfect position to see how that last play unfolded with the Hawks kicking out. Our set up was OK, but it was clear the Hawks were going down the middle and we didn't do enough to stop it by narrowing our press to push them wide and give them and easy boundary option. We were too slow to open up the pockets/flanks.

The plan was fine, we just botched it. If we admit it as a team we'll be able to move on.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

Our setup for the final play was fine. The absolute mung of a kick landing to Burgoyne was unlucky. He dropped it which was lucky. We just needed to lock it in and get 1 ball up so we could set up behind the ball. We had the players theres but we weren't smart enough.

[Happy Days]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

No it's not. You maintain a half ground forward press and you do the disciplined thing and hold your space after the ball is kicked in and in dispute - which we didn't do. What makes you think with four minutes to go we'd have had the energy to get back and keep up with the footy as it flew out of our our forward line over the heads of defenders running back?

If you open up the first 70-80m from a kick-out against a side like the Hawks they're going to be within 20m of goal within ten seconds. They're that bloody good. The reason you play that way against them ALL game is because it's the best way to stop them from using their obviously superior foot skills. They also had a tendency to take contested marks forward for some reason throughout the second half and that really hurt us, so I'm glad we set up for that not to happen.

I was sitting behind the Dogs goals on level three and in a perfect position to see how that last play unfolded with the Hawks kicking out. Our set up was OK, but it was clear the Hawks were going down the middle and we didn't do enough to stop it by narrowing our press to push them wide and give them and easy boundary option. We were too slow to open up the pockets/flanks.

The plan was fine, we just botched it. If we admit it as a team we'll be able to move on.

You can have it both ways surely? There's no need to open up the first 80m, just a sweeper or two from the forward line; we had several guys forward of the ball at the stoppage in question, they could have pushed two back without too much compromise. There was no contingency against non-containment and we had to provide one.

[jeemak]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

You can have it both ways surely? There's no need to open up the first 80m, just a sweeper or two from the forward line; we had several guys forward of the ball at the stoppage in question, they could have pushed two back without too much compromise. There was no contingency against non-containment and we had to provide one.

I think I gave an answer to that, and that was push it wide by crowding the middle.

You can't give away anything within the first 40m aside from width. We left the middle open and we got burned because of it.

[jeemak]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

The thing is, if you force it to the pockets and flanks you still have an opposition that needs to move the ball 150m to get to goal. If you leave the centre as an option you reduce that by a kick.

Once it's gone wide your defenders in the middle of the ground can adjust. If you're lucky it might go out of bounds. As a minimum the game gets slowed down a bit or the ball needs to hit the centre at some stage where it's more congested and you can bottle it up.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

I thought it was a free too. And the deliberate OOB paid against Suckling, from which Rioli scored a freak goal was a very poor decision. As I saw it Suckling was not in control of the ball and was actually pushed from behind and this caused the ball to cross the line.

Suckling chose to push the ball along rather than grab it.. At the time I thought he was hard done by, but having watched it a few times it was the correct decison... But our lead-up play which led to Suckling being in that position was horrible... JJ gathers the ball and starts to charge out of defecnce, doesn't have a clear passage out so handballs to a stationary Roughead, he panics and handballs well over Sucklin'g's head who forces the ball out.. Just a sloppy piece of play which put Suckling under more pressure than he needed to be.

[Sedat]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

Our setup for the final play was fine. The absolute mung of a kick landing to Burgoyne was unlucky. He dropped it which was lucky. We just needed to lock it in and get 1 ball up so we could set up behind the ball. We had the players theres but we weren't smart enough.

I don't have a huge problem with our set-up - you can't gift-wrap Hawthorn 100 metres of easy field position by having the press too deep - but there was a major concentration lapse by a couple of our players in the press to let Sicily sneak out the back unchecked. There was some revealing footage of this passage of play 'On The Couch' last night - crap way to learn a lesson but we're very good at learning harsh lessons.

[always right]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

Suckling chose to push the ball along rather than grab it.. At the time I thought he was hard done by, but having watched it a few times it was the correct decison... But our lead-up play which led to Suckling being in that position was horrible... JJ gathers the ball and starts to charge out of defecnce, doesn't have a clear passage out so handballs to a stationary Roughead, he panics and handballs well over Sucklin'g's head who forces the ball out.. Just a sloppy piece of play which put Suckling under more pressure than he needed to be.

I'm the reverse. I thought it was a free when I saw it live but changed my mind when the replay showed Rioli push Suckling as he was bent over the ball. No question it was a sloppy piece of play by our blokes.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

I don't have a huge problem with our set-up - you can't gift-wrap Hawthorn 100 metres of easy field position by having the press too deep - but there was a major concentration lapse by a couple of our players in the press to let Sicily sneak out the back unchecked. There was some revealing footage of this passage of play 'On The Couch' last night - crap way to learn a lesson but we're very good at learning harsh lessons.

There was, and it seemed that Adams was at fault, but I guess it's best that a 3rd gamer (and defensive group) learns a harsh lesson in rd 3 rather than in a more important game later in the season.

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

I'm the reverse. I thought it was a free when I saw it live but changed my mind when the replay showed Rioli push Suckling as he was bent over the ball. No question it was a sloppy piece of play by our blokes.

It was a pretty soft push, but we had couple paid against us which were equally as soft.. One against JJ was farcical.

[KT31]

Re: Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

I didn't see how that could have been a free kick to Murphy. Bruest did well to affect the contest but from where I sat (level 1 middle of the ground outer side) and the footage I've seen of the contest between Bruest and Murphy looked ok and the injury innocuous. Bruest never looked to actually take hold of him for any length of time.

I didn't see to much in the Murphy one ( & a emoticon with tears) , the Morris one in the goal square on the other hand.
Apparently if you wear a Hawks jumper you can just pick a player up and throw him to the side.