Over-rated / Under-rated #5 - Tim English

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  • mjp
    Bulldog Team of the Century
    • Jan 2007
    • 7374

    Over-rated / Under-rated #5 - Tim English

    Age: 27
    Games Total: 131
    Games Last Year: 23

    The story:
    Recruited in the shadow of the flag as a 19yo, Tim moved to Perth from the wheat belt to board at Christ Church - a school know in equal parts for academically excellence AND for being a sporting dumpster fire. He was 184cm tall when he moved up and not considered a prospect to the extent that when he started growing the club he was zoned too - South Fremantle - didn't even know he existed (and very nearly lost him to Claremont).

    He quickly took to becoming a full-time athlete gaining weight rapidly to the extent that he was able to debut in 2017 and by 2019 was leading the ruck.

    It's hard to say too much before getting into the over/unders but when you go back and read some of his draft notes (I don't do ALL of this from memory but 'cos I'm lazy I do most of it) but articles like this certainly seem to sum Tim up even 9 years later: https://www.afl.com.au/news/149481/w...-steal-of-2016

    "English doesn't yet have the physical presence of Grundy, but what makes him special is his ability to cover the ground and play the role of a fourth midfielder and rack up possessions."
    "The South Fremantle product can find the football at ground level, and often is seen scrapping at the bottom of packs, he backs himself to take the game on by hitting his targets by foot, and he can drift forward and take marks."

    Is Tim:
    a). Over-rated - He has ZERO physical presence. Whenever the pressure is on, Tim gets bullied by the opposition ruckman and our clearance/contested game overall suffers. When will he toughen up?
    b). Properly-rated - He won AA selection for a reason - he really is a POD player with his ability to link up between the arcs and push forward to hit the scoreboard. Week-in/Week-out he's in the most influential 2-3 ruckman in the game.
    c). Under-rated - He is such a point of difference - a ruckman who WINS THE BALL and KICKS GOALS. The criticism of him is completely unfair and simply not backed up by numbers...everyone wants to blame Tim whenever 'something' goes wrong in a big game but no-one wants to suggest he played a part when we WIN those games...the Giants game at Ballarat near the end of the 2024 season is a perfect example. No player on the list gets a rougher go of it from fans.
    What should I tell her? She's going to ask.
  • GVGjr
    Moderator
    • Nov 2006
    • 44669

    #2
    I'm a fan of Tim and while his limitations frustrates some of our fans I quite like the point of difference he offers. With that in mind I think he is B properly rated.
    We chased Lobb to support him and now that's evolved into Darcy's role. He's never going to be a crash and bash ruck man.
    Western Bulldogs Football Club "Where it's cool to drool"

    Comment

    • SonofScray
      Coaching Staff
      • Apr 2008
      • 4236

      #3
      I think he is probably properly rated if we are just assessing him as an individual player. He definitely has a good skill set,athletic profile and runs on the board when the cards are stacked in his favour.


      If I add the layer of our current team and his value to efforts though, I am leaning more towards Over rated.

      His main fault is a catastrophic one for our style of play and strengths/needs as a squad and in hindsight, we should have flipped him.
      Time and Tide Waits For No Man

      Comment

      • Woofingwarrior
        WOOF Member
        • Dec 2024
        • 42

        #4
        B- had a down year last year but ruckman don’t usually hit prime untill around 27 so should see the best of him over the next few years. Winning a few more hit outs would be nice

        Comment

        • Jasper
          Senior Player
          • Jan 2009
          • 1263

          #5
          Originally posted by Woofingwarrior
          B- had a down year last year but ruckman don’t usually hit prime untill around 27 so should see the best of him over the next few years. Winning a few more hit outs would be nice
          Yes that is how I see it. He's a late developer and after all that investment in him we now need to be patient with him.
          I agree that he needs to be more competitive with his hit outs.

          I'll have him as a B as well
          Doing my best to use emojis more frequently :o

          Comment

          • Rocco Jones
            Bulldog Team of the Century
            • Jun 2008
            • 6932

            #6
            I'd say overrated but not as strong as the description used in the OP.

            Comment

            • Grantysghost
              Bouncing Strong
              • Apr 2010
              • 18972

              #7
              C).

              People concentrate on what he's not to the point of nauseating obsession.
              Think about what he is. From a footy sense there isn't much he can't do. Massive overhead, beautiful kick around the ground and for goal, can transition both ways better than every other ruck in the game and can be a genuine forward when needed.
              I'm a big fan. His best is yet to come, AA in 2023 (which people like to downplay because of this and because of that ...) and last year had an extremely interrupted prep due to concussion issues. (Thanks naughts).

              ​​I predict a large serve of humble pie might be on the menu for Tim's detractors this year.
              BT COME BACK!​

              Comment

              • Bornadog
                WOOF Clubhouse Leader
                • Jan 2007
                • 66761

                #8
                Bulldog Supporters on social media = A
                Non Bulldog supporters = B

                I think he is rated about right ie B
                FFC: Established 1883

                Premierships: AFL 1954, 2016 VFA - 1898,99,1900, 1908, 1913, 1919-20, 1923-24, VFL: 2014, 2016 . Champions of Victoria 1924. AFLW - 2018.

                Comment

                • Happy Days
                  Hall of Fame
                  • May 2008
                  • 10145

                  #9
                  A - overrated by me because I’m an idiot and fall for it every time he does something awesome that is virtually never inside of a ruck contest. You aren’t tricking me again Tim.
                  - I'm a visionary - Only here to confirm my biases -

                  Comment

                  • Mofra
                    Hall of Fame
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 14963

                    #10
                    A - Overrated by opposition supporters who mostly see his stats
                    C - Underrated by our own supporters who see his deficiencies (3-4 howlers every year) but don't rate his transition work as highly as coaches do.

                    So on average and by deduction, B
                    Western Bulldogs: 2016 Premiers

                    Comment

                    • jazzadogs
                      Bulldog Team of the Century
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 5649

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mofra
                      A - Overrated by opposition supporters who mostly see his stats
                      C - Underrated by our own supporters who see his deficiencies (3-4 howlers every year) but don't rate his transition work as highly as coaches do.

                      So on average and by deduction, B
                      I came to say the same thing. Overrated by supercoach fans, underrated by Bulldogs fans, properly rated by neutral fans who assess his impact on games.

                      Comment

                      • MrMahatma
                        Coaching Staff
                        • Sep 2007
                        • 3966

                        #12
                        I'd say B.
                        I'd agree a lot of the time we look at what he CAN'T do rather than what he does do. As a player I think he's rated appropriately.

                        Does that mean he's the right player for our team? Definitely a different question!

                        Comment

                        • BiteNibbleChomp
                          Rookie List
                          • Dec 2024
                          • 176

                          #13
                          The memory of Tim English that always sticks with me the most is when there was a minute left in the game in Tassie at the end of '23 when he was in the goal square. All he had to do was kick it long to a teammate and we still had a chance of winning. Instead he wastes time looking clueless, then takes a bounce before he's even out of the square, and then... I'd prefer forget what happened next.

                          Then two weeks later he was named all-Australian. Maybe by remembering only one of his worst moments I'm being a harsh judge

                          He is certainly a flawed player - given he's our primary ruck it'd certainly be nice for him to win the hitouts a bit more often - but every time we joke about him winning AA as a 7th midfielder, we are also recognising the contributions he does bring, even if they don't necessarily line up with what is usually expected from the role he is officially there to play.

                          I'd say fairly rated.

                          - BNC

                          Comment

                          • Vred
                            Senior Player
                            • Nov 2018
                            • 1294

                            #14
                            I'd trade him tomorrow if it was upto me.
                            Never rated him, never will.
                            I'm sick of seeing him get humiliated by younger rucks to the point that Bevo has to switch Lobb into the center square to compete.
                            The best season we've had in recent history was in 21' when he wasn't the starting ruckmen for over half the season. We looked so much better with Stefan Martin in the ruck and English as the third tall up forward.

                            Incredibly overrated.
                            [I][B]"Its always good to win the Ashes test match'' - Libba, AFL Grand Final, 2016[/B][/I]

                            Comment

                            • Rocco Jones
                              Bulldog Team of the Century
                              • Jun 2008
                              • 6932

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Vred
                              I'd trade him tomorrow if it was upto me.
                              Never rated him, never will.
                              I'm sick of seeing him get humiliated by younger rucks to the point that Bevo has to switch Lobb into the center square to compete.
                              The best season we've had in recent history was in 21' when he wasn't the starting ruckmen for over half the season. We looked so much better with Stefan Martin in the ruck and English as the third tall up forward.

                              Incredibly overrated.
                              So you're saying A?

                              Comment

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