What happens now?

[doggies ftw]

For anyone who hasn't I suggest you listen to the Dan Boyd Podcast where Danny McGinlay interviews Kylie Watson Wheeler after the shock loss to Fremantle on Sunday.

TLDR -we are in great hands and our future is as bright as it has ever been in our history.

And in breaking news, former president Peter Gordon is favourite to take over from Richard Goyter as chair of the AFL.

Where can we find the full podcast mate? Seems like there’s just a 1min snippet on Spotify & on their patreon? Thanks

edit: all good found it, Apple Podcasts has it for anyone looking

[Bornadog]

Where can we find the full podcast mate? Seems like there’s just a 1min snippet on Spotify & on their patreon? Thanks

edit: all good found it, Apple Podcasts has it for anyone looking

People can also listen on Youtube. here

[Mantis]

Lol what, could be the worst call I’ve ever seen on a forum. Libba goes at nearly 50% contested possession rate, is elite for effective clearances & hard ball gets - all mids are going to hack a couple out of the stoppage at times but he has a remarkably low turnover count for the role he plays, his clearance work is the reason Bont & Richards do what they do offensively. And an inability to defend? He has a license to ball hunt yes, that’s his role… What am I reading - if you think Libba is the problem I don’t know what to tell you. Good luck replacing him and what he brings to this midfield, unless we can pull Butters out of our ass

I said Libba is part of the problem.

I'll break it down for you to what I see our 3 biggest issues are to why we can't beat top 8 teams:

1/ We don't get enough bang for buck from our clearance wins, and don't defend the oppositions clearances wins well.
2/ Our mids & forwards don't defend the ground well when opposition transition from D50 and we give the opposition too much clean ball when they go forward.
3/ Our backs defend from an offensive position far too often and can't win 1:1 contests, and when we do 1/2 contests our ground ball D50 game sucks, but that isn't surprising when our small backs are all offensive players.

I feel Libba is a big part of our issues with both number 1 & 2.

[JanLorMill]

Now it’s all official, there needs to be an external review on how we missed top 4 or winning a final let alone not making finals.

[Rocket Science]

Now it’s all official, there needs to be an external review on how we missed top 4 or winning a final let alone not making finals.

You mean this season?

Or one of the other 9 of 11 seasons we've failed to win a final or even qualify for them, since 2015?

[1eyedog]

There will be some fans, potentially many, who don't come back next season.

Bailing out in week 1 has been a disaster over many years but missing finals again is a catastrophe.

[hujsh]

Now it’s all official, there needs to be an external review on how we missed top 4 or winning a final let alone not making finals.

Didn't we just do that? Do we need to review the review?

[Bigdog]

I’m disappointed about not making finals. I thought we could win the lot at various points this season. However there was quite a lot too like about the year:

The 2024 Draftees - couldn’t ask for much more. I expect Jaques, Hynes and Davidson to play every game next year. Also like Dolan a lot just plays a very hard position.

James O’Donnell - Got exposed at times but will be a 200 game player subject to health.

Luke Cleary - Massive step forward. One of our better one on one defenders.

Riley West - Brilliant season. His our Toby Greene.

Ed Richards - Became an A Grader.

Riley Sanders - Took great strides. Fatigued as the year wore.

Joel Freijah - The best player of the 23 Draft Class

Aaron Naughton & Sam Darcy are the best forward duo in the game.

Crofty - always thought he’d be a better AFL player than vfl player. Thought he’d be a system guy at the next level. He might be a hell of a lot better than that.

Buss - Got exposure to senior football. A building block to work with.

it’s not all doom and gloom. I think we know where we are at and what the holes are. The defense just wasn’t good enough this year. Needs a refresh on the run. We are 3 goals off the pace.

[Go_Dogs]

What’s next?

list decisions
Duryea - retires
L Jones - retires
JJ - retires
Scott - delist
Poulter - delist
Coffield - delist
Khamis - trade
Jamarra - trade

JOD - upgrade

Extend all other expiring / OOC players

Silvagni - trade in / FA
Butts - trade in / FA

Butters seems less likely this year with NAS extending at St Kilda, but live in hope.

That leaves 3 or 4 open list spots which might be one too many for a weaker draft but we may need the spots for points.

coaching decisions
The mix has seemed good this year - albeit we’ve fallen short, a cohesive group who have worked well together and shared the load. It’s hard to know.

Trust the powers that be to make the right calls and if we lose someone bring in some fresh ideas I’m ok with.

game plan or structural changes
I’d like to see us prioritise players who can move well and use the ball cleanly. This means more exposure for our 2024 crop I’m really big on while creating bigger roles for Fridge, Sanders.

We need to decide if we’re a three tall or two tall defensive group and balance the mix with the right defensive / intercepting medium players and attacking players. We seemed a two tall team to start but when Jones declined we didn’t know what we were and couldn’t get the mix right. Crest a philosophy and build list depth to execute it.

We need to decide if we’re a three tall or two tall forward line. Our best footy was with 2 talls. Croft can play and plays a lot “smaller” than his height in someways (other than the contested marking). Weightman is back - he’s a marking player? Who is our second craft forward and who is our forward with the excellent entry kick? Or the one who finds a 5m space to receive an easy centre ball? It’s a philosophy and mix question.

We need to decide if we’re a clearance or die or a blended midfield. We have the cattle to win clearance but our mix struggles a little in the transition game because of lack of wheels and/or intent. Who are we and then who are the players that can fill those roles? Do we play a stopper sometimes or most times? Our wings have improved but are we clear on what we want from them (width, working back / forward, defensive ability, goal kicking prowess).

Let’s get clear on our plan, intent, structure and philosophy across each line and ensure they’re cohesive and hang together.

[JanLorMill]

Didn't we just do that? Do we need to review the review?

Obviously the review was rubbish then that we learnt nothing from.
What are the excuses for the failed season?

[doggies ftw]

I said Libba is part of the problem.

I'll break it down for you to what I see our 3 biggest issues are to why we can't beat top 8 teams:

1/ We don't get enough bang for buck from our clearance wins, and don't defend the oppositions clearances wins well.
2/ Our mids & forwards don't defend the ground well when opposition transition from D50 and we give the opposition too much clean ball when they go forward.
3/ Our backs defend from an offensive position far too often and can't win 1:1 contests, and when we do 1/2 contests our ground ball D50 game sucks, but that isn't surprising when our small backs are all offensive players.

I feel Libba is a big part of our issues with both number 1 & 2.

Appreciate you sharing your thoughts but really don’t think it’s fair to put any of those things on Libba.

Firstly we’re the number 1 clearance side in the comp, number 1 by a mile for scores from stoppages and scores from centre bounce. Number 1 for turning first possession into clearances, number 1 for both turning clearances into chains and chains into scoring. We literally could not be getting more ‘bang for our buck’ unless you expect perfection?

On the opposition side of things we rate pretty well too, number 2 at stopping the opposition turning 1st possession into a clearance, 2nd for stopping opposition clearances, top 4 for limiting scores from stoppages etc.

All of this is driven by Libba, who is our number 1 effective clearance player, 3rd in the league for effective centre clearances, #1 in the league for hard ball gets, top 5 in the league for score launches (ie first possession in a chain leading to a score, the most effective clearance you can get)

Defensively he’s our best tackler & pressure act mid, is he shutting down exits on the outside? No of course not because his role is first possession ball hunter, and he’s as good as any in the league at his role. Crazy to say he’s part of the problem to be honest - there’s a lot of problems with the way we structure up, which you’ve touched on with your points. None of them are even slightly to do with Libba

Bevo has shown a complete disregard for the opposition in almost every facet of his game plan. We have a defensive line who is chasing kicks at half forward, key defenders who guard space rather than an opponent, hell even our ruckman runs forward for a handball after the ruck contest! Our ruckman ffs! I just fail to put any blame on our mids for defensive accountability when you just know what their expectations are - win the ball and run forward to provide an offensive option? If we don’t win the ball? Who cares just win it

All or nothing, and that’s why we are where we are - a non serious side, once again. It’s quite funny really because for the most part his all or nothing clearance game is working, we have a clearance game so dominant we should be just about unbeatable - but the rest of our game is so so unaccountable that we’re not even a contender but outside the 8. Crazy

[Mantis]

Appreciate you sharing your thoughts but really don’t think it’s fair to put any of those things on Libba.

Firstly we’re the number 1 clearance side in the comp, number 1 by a mile for scores from stoppages and scores from centre bounce. Number 1 for turning first possession into clearances, number 1 for both turning clearances into chains and chains into scoring. We literally could not be getting more ‘bang for our buck’ unless you expect perfection?

On the opposition side of things we rate pretty well too, number 2 at stopping the opposition turning 1st possession into a clearance, 2nd for stopping opposition clearances, top 4 for limiting scores from stoppages etc.

All of this is driven by Libba, who is our number 1 effective clearance player, 3rd in the league for effective centre clearances, #1 in the league for hard ball gets, top 5 in the league for score launches (ie first possession in a chain leading to a score, the most effective clearance you can get)

Defensively he’s our best tackler & pressure act mid, is he shutting down exits on the outside? No of course not because his role is first possession ball hunter, and he’s as good as any in the league at his role. Crazy to say he’s part of the problem to be honest - there’s a lot of problems with the way we structure up, which you’ve touched on with your points. None of them are even slightly to do with Libba

Bevo has shown a complete disregard for the opposition in almost every facet of his game plan. We have a defensive line who is chasing kicks at half forward, key defenders who guard space rather than an opponent, hell even our ruckman runs forward for a handball after the ruck contest! Our ruckman ffs! I just fail to put any blame on our mids for defensive accountability when you just know what their expectations are - win the ball and run forward to provide an offensive option? If we don’t win the ball? Who cares just win it

All or nothing, and that’s why we are where we are - a non serious side, once again. It’s quite funny really because for the most part his all or nothing clearance game is working, we have a clearance game so dominant we should be just about unbeatable - but the rest of our game is so so unaccountable that we’re not even a contender but outside the 8. Crazy

All of those stats read extremely well, but they are so far skewed to what we do against the bottom 9 teams it isn't funny.

The facts are that our performances against the top 8 teams aren't where we need it to be and we need to look at how we can improve. I feel that we can't go into a new season with the same midfield make-up and feel that Libba is the one who is under the most pressure. You may see it differently and that's fine as all we are doing is giving opinions.

Given Libba hasn't found a ''2nd position'' and probably doesn't have the skill set to allow it, I find it difficult to see how we move forward with him... but perhaps we completely change our defensive system and back 6 personnel and we can better hide the defensive deficiencies that Libba and co. have.

[Bornadog]

There will be some fans, potentially many, who don't come back next season.

They are not real supporters of the club

[SonofScray]

Clear that we need more size and strength. Some will come via development and work in the preseason. Down back if we could land a gorilla that'd be welcome but I'm prepared to stick with JOD and Buss at the moment, wouldn't be doing anything that would roll back their time on ground or delay further investment in games experience.

Are there any players we see in the squad who could take up a different role in the team and really add value? A la Libba Snr tagging, Boyd to HBF etc. Someone to sacrifice their normal game and add a new string to our bow?

[doggies ftw]

All of those stats read extremely well, but they are so far skewed to what we do against the bottom 9 teams it isn't funny.
.

Yeah that’s just not true though, the stats speak for themselves. A lot of parts of our game obviously didn’t stand up against top 8 sides but our midfield game actually did.

Looking at Freo, GWS, Adel, Brisbane, Hawks, Geelong our top 8 match ups in the 2nd half of the year with our nearly full side back together - we didn’t lose the clearances once, we significantly outscored almost all of them from stoppage except hawks and scored more from centre than all but hawks too.

Again there’s a lot of problems in the way we play, mostly in the way we defend turnovers - my main point here is I think you’ll be sorely disappointed if you think this will improve without Libba as you’re happy for him to “go” as you originally said. He’s far from the problem and pretty shit call to say what he brings is hack kicks forward and no defensive accountability.