Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

Trengove and Dickson are the only players that could come in. Duryea is injured as is Jong but the rest of the players over 100 games are playing. I don't think we do have an experienced list. We only have 5 players over 150. and none over 200.



I don't agree with any of this. Players have come in all due to the heavy injury toll we have endured over the last few seasons. Bevo likes to reward players that do well at VFL level and they get their opportunity. Greene and Lynch have had injury problems and have not captured any form. This season it is hard due to no VFL and players that have trained well and played well in the scratch matches get an opportunity. I don't believe anyone has lost faith in West. He has plenty of time to develop, same with Lewis Young.

I think we have tried to address the inexperience by bringing in Crozier, Trengove, Duryea, Lloyd, and Suckling back in 2016.

I think people read too much into the selections as we don't know what is going on in the background, but it is fun to try and pick who will be in on a week to week basis.

Agree entirely with this.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

I’m not sure how you can make any assumptions on selections this year when there are no lower tier games
Scratch matches and players playing for both sides is hardly group 1 type form guide
Soup makes some salient points, but I’m not sure in 2020 it’s that easy to select a team

[Remi Moses]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

The thing is, there is no conspiracy to be the youngest team. Essendon were younger than us last night. We have been one of the youngest due to unforeseen circumstances, mainly brought about by injuries and retirements. In 2017 second half and a lot of 2018 we had an average of 10 players on the injury list, and most of those were the more experienced players.

If you look at the list now, we have a good profile in the 50 to 100 and 100 to 150 bracket which makes us well balanced. An elder statesmen would be good in the 200 plus bracket, but that will come.

We also have a very good blend of young players which is great - so not sure the issues?

Imagine if we were norf

[Bornadog]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

I really would like to know what is happening with Trengove, as he is the one guy that can play multiple KP and also ruck. He would be an ideal second ruck for Tim. Hopefully we don't burn Tim out, but I guess playing 16 minutes less game time this year helps him.

[soupman]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

So given there's 25-27 players on the list who have claims to be playing regularly, and actually do when there's injury and form issues, how many more should be regular players? It's a finite season, you can only pick 22 players.

I'm not trying to say these guys should be regular players, I'm happy for them not to be. The thing I'm trying to point out is that we are great at kickstarting players development by giving them games early, but when the opportunity arises to play them in subsequent seasons we often look to the next guy instead of contueing on with the same guy.

Take Lipinski last year for example. Had had promising seasons, been given a fair few games early. Last year a spot opened up for a hard running link player, Lipinski is that guy, and had had great form in the VFL, but we ignored him repetitively to pump games into Hayes. Hayes struggled for the most part, but started to look like a serviceable player at the end of the season. This year we have had a huge hole on the wing in Hunters absence for a hard running linkman winger, Hayes hasn't looked like getting picked while we bring in guys like Butler and Vandermeer (who have shown good sings don't get me wrong) and an out of position Lachie Young and are reluctant to back in Hayes again.

It seems for a lot for those fringe types, we are keen as to give them as many chances as possible and instill confidence in them the first time round, but the second time round they keep getting the cold shoulder and find themselves competing for our attention, unless they've already proven themselves as definitely best 22.

That's the frustration, not with the guys who have already shown themselves to be best 22 already, like English, Smith, Daniel etc. More that when we need to fill out the last 2-3 spots in the side with fringe guys, we always have one or two guys from the previous draft pushed into that spot, and then the next year those same one or two guys can't buy a game while the next new kids get their share.

[Bornadog]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

I'm not trying to say these guys should be regular players, I'm happy for them not to be. The thing I'm trying to point out is that we are great at kickstarting players development by giving them games early, but when the opportunity arises to play them in subsequent seasons we often look to the next guy instead of contueing on with the same guy.

Take Lipinski last year for example. Had had promising seasons, been given a fair few games early. Last year a spot opened up for a hard running link player, Lipinski is that guy, and had had great form in the VFL, but we ignored him repetitively to pump games into Hayes. Hayes struggled for the most part, but started to look like a serviceable player at the end of the season. This year we have had a huge hole on the wing in Hunters absence for a hard running linkman winger, Hayes hasn't looked like getting picked while we bring in guys like Butler and Vandermeer (who have shown good sings don't get me wrong) and an out of position Lachie Young and are reluctant to back in Hayes again.

It seems for a lot for those fringe types, we are keen as to give them as many chances as possible and instill confidence in them the first time round, but the second time round they keep getting the cold shoulder and find themselves competing for our attention, unless they've already proven themselves as definitely best 22.

That's the frustration, not with the guys who have already shown themselves to be best 22 already, like English, Smith, Daniel etc. More that when we need to fill out the last 2-3 spots in the side with fringe guys, we always have one or two guys from the previous draft pushed into that spot, and then the next year those same one or two guys can't buy a game while the next new kids get their share.

What you are describing is what happens at every club. You play well you get a game, you don't play well, you are dropped. You are reading too much into it.

On specific players that you have mentioned:

Lipiniski - At the start of the 2019 season, Lippa had a discussion with Bevo on what role he could play. Bevo asked him be an inside mid. He played well at VFL level then came into the side round 10 and played every game for the year (except 12, could have been injured, I haven't checked).

Hayes - Hasn't exactly set the world on fire. Played in rounds 5 to 9, then was dropped. Found form in the VFL and came back in round 21 and played the year out including finals. As for this year, obviously he is not in form.

Webb - He just wasn't good enough for AFL level, and if he was he would be playing for us or another club.

Butler - he has been designated as one of the players in the future as a replacement for either Wood or Crozier.

Vandermeer - earned his spot with good performances in the scratch matches

Reward for effort.

[The Underdog]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

I really would like to know what is happening with Trengove, as he is the one guy that can play multiple KP and also ruck. He would be an ideal second ruck for Tim. Hopefully we don't burn Tim out, but I guess playing 16 minutes less game time this year helps him.

Is it as simple as he’s pretty slow and not a very good kick? I’m not sure we’d play him in the forward half. Admittedly these things were true when we recruited him and gave him a 4 year contract.
I agree that Tim is going to need some sort of chop out. It may as simple as giving him a couple of games off and giving Sweet a shot, but we certainly don’t seem keen on playing overly tall.

[ratsmac]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

Maybe Bevo just wants to play with his new toys!

[Mofra]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

Butler - he has been designated as one of the players in the future as a replacement for either Wood or Crozier.

Now that's a real worry.

He has nowhere near the aerial impact of Wood or Crozier, and when drafted we made noise about developing him as a wingman and he only played back in his u18 year due to the strength of his teammates. We've abandoned all that already?

[comrade]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

Now that's a real worry.

He has nowhere near the aerial impact of Wood or Crozier, and when drafted we made noise about developing him as a wingman and he only played back in his u18 year due to the strength of his teammates. We've abandoned all that already?

In the latest scratch match review, Gia mentioned Butler played on the wing:

“I thought Louis Butler was good, there would have been a bit of disappointment after missing out on AFL selection. We exposed him to a bit of wing time and he looked quite comfortable there,” he said.

[Bornadog]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

Now that's a real worry.

He has nowhere near the aerial impact of Wood or Crozier, and when drafted we made noise about developing him as a wingman and he only played back in his u18 year due to the strength of his teammates. We've abandoned all that already?

Just a guess because he replaced them in his two matches.

[Axe Man]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

Is it as simple as he’s pretty slow and not a very good kick? I’m not sure we’d play him in the forward half. Admittedly these things were true when we recruited him and gave him a 4 year contract.
I agree that Tim is going to need some sort of chop out. It may as simple as giving him a couple of games off and giving Sweet a shot, but we certainly don’t seem keen on playing overly tall.

I keep seeing this repeated on here. Trengove got a 3 year contract, 2018 - 2020.

[The Underdog]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

I keep seeing this repeated on here. Trengove got a 3 year contract, 2018 - 2020.

Right you are. For some reason I thought he was there in 2017. Sure looks like there won’t be a 4th

[Raw Toast]

Re: Just because English was BOG doesn't mean...

Thanks for the thread MJP,

I agree that we're building to something, and also that we need to get more consistent efforts across a greater number of players.

I've said it a few times, but I still hope that we're on a similar path to the Hawks of 2007, and the Bombers of 1993. Both won very young, then struggled for awhile before more slowly building to a period of sustained dominance largely around the core of young players who first took them to the flag.

(Now of course we'd prefer to be the Hawks who capitalised on their sustained dominance, rather than the Bombers who brought a bit more schadenfreude than champagne.)

I get that lots of people have less patience than I do, but from a historical point of view, I just think these kind of progressions clearly take time (not that there's any guarantee that we'll actually get there of course).