Argue against us winning the flag.

[Grantysghost]

Hark the Bevolution.

As a 42 year member; I've seen it all.

I was inferior as a child; I was born a Bulldog.

Inferior no more. We have arguably the most talented list in the league, certainly the most talented in my lifetime.

So.

Tell me why we won't win it all.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

For me, it's defence and injuries.

Gardner, O'Brien and Keath could be the difference between taking it out or just making up the numbers.

Marra, Naughton and English would be very hard to stop.

Mids go without saying.

I'm bullish!

[mjp]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Hark the Bevolution.

As a 42 year member; I've seen it all.

I was inferior as a child; I was born a Bulldog.

Inferior no more. We have arguably the most talented list in the league, certainly the most talented in my lifetime.

So.

Tell me why we won't win it all.

I was at the Grand Final.
I watched what happened.
When Melbourne elevated, we either COULDN'T or WOULDN'T defend.
If we "COULDN'T", we have hope. And it had been a challenging schedule to say the least.
If we "WOULDN'T", well...

I haven't watched the replay but on the day it seemed all about what we wouldn't do and not even a little bit about whether we could. I'm worried about the same things I was last year. We have too many players who play their best in the same position. They all (and with some justification) THINK they should play there. They let those negative thoughts impact their output.

[GVGjr]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I'm bullish of our chances because given our talented list you shouldn't be able to have a midfield so strong and not be competitive.
We do however, need to add a defensive component to our midfield that we seem reluctant to do. This is where Marc Webb has a chance to shape our team and add another string to the bow.

What could hold us back is the distraction of so many unsigned top line players and perhaps a sense that the hunger isn't quite there much like what happened in 2017.
Getting to GF's is hard work so it's not going to just happen this year just based on a talented list, we have to have this playing group stung by the 2021 capitulation in a GF and showing up with a mindset of getting better.

[Bornadog]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I was at the Grand Final.
I watched what happened.
When Melbourne elevated, we either COULDN'T or WOULDN'T defend.
If we "COULDN'T", we have hope. And it had been a challenging schedule to say the least.
If we "WOULDN'T", well...

I haven't watched the replay but on the day it seemed all about what we wouldn't do and not even a little bit about whether we could. I'm worried about the same things I was last year. We have too many players who play their best in the same position. They all (and with some justification) THINK they should play there. They let those negative thoughts impact their output.

I don't disagree with anything you have said, but I will offer excuses for the GF.

The travel in the end killed us, mentally we just couldn't get up anymore. Yes other teams travel but we had to endure lockdown in our hotels in Tassie, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, then Perth. Melbourne went straight to Perth and stayed there. This eventually got to us. Mentally we were shot and just couldn't fight back late in that 3rd quarter.

Injuries compared to Melbourne. Melbourne had one main injury (Tomlinson) and a couple of niggles. We ended up using 40 of our players.

That is my view

In answering the OP, injuries to key players will be the only thing that stops us.

[The Underdog]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I'm bullish of our chances because given our talented list you shouldn't be able to have a midfield so strong and not be competitive.
We do however, need to add a defensive component to our midfield that we seem reluctant to do. This is where Marc Webb has a chance to shape our team and add another string to the bow.

What could hold us back is the distraction of so many unsigned top line players and perhaps a sense that the hunger isn't quite there much like what happened in 2017.
Getting to GF's is hard work so it's not going to just happen this year just based on a talented list, we have to have this playing group stung by the 2021 capitulation in a GF and showing up with a mindset of getting better.

This. The Bailey Smith to …whichever club rumours are going to start early and continue on endlessly, on top of Dunkley, Macrae et al. But it’ll be the Smith ones that get the most publicity and traction and end up unsettling him and possibly the rest of the team (at least that’s my argument against us)

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I was at the Grand Final.
I watched what happened.
When Melbourne elevated, we either COULDN'T or WOULDN'T defend.
If we "COULDN'T", we have hope. And it had been a challenging schedule to say the least.
If we "WOULDN'T", well...

I haven't watched the replay but on the day it seemed all about what we wouldn't do and not even a little bit about whether we could. I'm worried about the same things I was last year. We have too many players who play their best in the same position. They all (and with some justification) THINK they should play there. They let those negative thoughts impact their output.

When you say Melbourne "elevated" was it purely midfield?

As some know a good mate of mine did oppo analysis for the Saints, and they were strong on the fact we didn't defend from the midfield.

I really hope the new coaches take guys like Macrae who is obviously talented running forward and teach him to be a more complete mid, or that we structure up in a more balanced way.

When Libba was stifled we were really in trouble.

[GVGjr]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I don't disagree with anything you have said, but I will offer excuses for the GF.

The travel in the end killed us, mentally we just couldn't get up anymore. Yes other teams travel but we had to endure lockdown in our hotels in Tassie, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, then Perth. Melbourne went straight to Perth and stayed there. This eventually got to us. Mentally we were shot and just couldn't fight back late in that 3rd quarter.

Injuries compared to Melbourne. Melbourne had one main injury (Tomlinson) and a couple of niggles. We ended up using 40 of our players.

That is my view

In answering the OP, injuries to key players will be the only thing that stops us.

I'm sorry but I can't agree and I don't think this is an accurate excuse. We were in a strong position in the game and our energy level was fine. With a bit more polish when it counted we would have been 30 points up and asking the question of Melbourne if they had it in them.
Once they got that run on and we didn't respond that's when we looked leg weary and lethargic.
Had we tightened things up when they got that run on we would have had more to play for in the last quarter and put up a better fight. Hopefully we have learned a lesson on how to shut things down when we need to.

[Bornadog]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I'm sorry but I can't agree and I don't think this is an accurate excuse. We were in a strong position in the game and our energy level was fine. With a bit more polish when it counted we would have been 30 points and asking the question of Melbourne if they had it in them.
Once they got that run on and we didn't respond that's when we looked leg weary and lethargic.
Had we tightened things up when they got that run on we would have had more to play for in the last quarter and put up a better fight. Hopefully we have learned a lesson on how to shut things down when we need to.

When they got a run on we hit a wall and mentally we couldn't go on anymore.

4 weeks locked in a hotel room is not good preparation for a GF, and with several players under done (Treloar, Dunkley ) we were shot

[jeemak]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I think people underestimate how much energy we burned trying to get back into the game in the GF, and then the wouldn't/ couldn't aspect of midfield/ team defending reared its head (I think all of our players both can't or won't at certain times, they have to be completely on to do so) due to being completely cooked physically and mentally.

So GG, if we have to get to the GF the hard way then I don't think we can win. If we don't do it the hard way we can. A lot will depend on Melbourne and how they respond to their success, and there could be a bolter ready to take a step we can't see just yet.

Good points raised by The Underdog......who knows whether the swinging dick mentality of some players who are out of contract will get in the way of them doing the team thing.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I'm sorry but I can't agree and I don't think this is an accurate excuse. We were in a strong position in the game and our energy level was fine. With a bit more polish when it counted we would have been 30 points up and asking the question of Melbourne if they had it in them.
Once they got that run on and we didn't respond that's when we looked leg weary and lethargic.
Had we tightened things up when they got that run on we would have had more to play for in the last quarter and put up a better fight. Hopefully we have learned a lesson on how to shut things down when we need to.

I've wondered if the week off was a bad thing. 2016 people were banging on about how much of an advantage it was... I wonder if it paused our momentum.

Who knows, these are massive hypotheticals.

Our lack of ability to defend the after goal stoppage appears to have been an issue late in the game.

I do think the travel would have played some part, we can't deny it.

But not sure it was that defining.

[boydogs]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Did nothing in the off season to address our weaknesses, nor the new one created by Bruce going down

[GVGjr]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I've wondered if the week off was a bad thing. 2016 people were banging on about how much of an advantage it was... I wonder if it paused our momentum.

Who knows, these are massive hypotheticals.

Our lack of ability to defend the after goal stoppage appears to have been an issue late in the game.

I do think the travel would have played some part, we can't deny it.

But not sure it was that defining.

There was a two week break between the PF and GF so we had plenty of time to freshen up. We got beaten by a better team on the day and yet we were matching them in intensity and effort until they got the run on.
There is no shame in acknowledging that rather than saying it was a tough draw that drained the players.

[GVGjr]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

I've wondered if the week off was a bad thing. 2016 people were banging on about how much of an advantage it was... I wonder if it paused our momentum.

Who knows, these are massive hypotheticals.

Our lack of ability to defend the after goal stoppage appears to have been an issue late in the game.

I do think the travel would have played some part, we can't deny it.

But not sure it was that defining.

The two things that stood out when they got that run on were our inability of the backs to defend the high ball when took those marks and that we couldn't match their intensity when Jackson went into the ruck.
By adding O'Brien for Wood and probably replacing Cordy with Gardner we might have covered being able to defend the high ball but unless Martin has a fountain of youth experience it remains to be seen if we can cover the ruck any better.

I'm not convinced the extra weeks break before the GF worked against us or that it was the travel demands that curtailed us. It probably made things tougher but professional sporting teams travel all the time. I've never heard that a superbowl was lost because of the travel demands.

I'm not saying it wasn't a factor but on GF day we were up for the challenge and didn't look flat and lethargic until Melbourne got that run on. Jee's summary that we spent plenty of tickets getting back into the game has some merits.

[comrade]

Re: Argue against us winning the flag.

Did nothing in the off season to address our weaknesses, nor the new one created by Bruce going down

This. In fact we arguably got weaker in a position of need given our first choice ruckman for the first 2 weeks of finals has left the club.