Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Treloar > Lippa.

Treloar is a proven big game player. He also has line breaking attributes that are rare in the league. Lippa failed a number of big tests in big games for the Bulldogs. Didn't seize the moment and also didn't commit harder enough when it was required. Lippa may improve, but I'm not convinced on his competitiveness in big tough matches or his ability to make the right decision when it really matters under pressure.

[Mofra]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

We could be if Darcy & Jones don't have good AFL careers.

I doubt we would have passed on Darcy if we didn't trade Lipinski, and we may have taken Jones anyway as well

[Happy Days]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Been waiting for this one.

Obviously Treloar is better and will probably always be better, but the inference that one begat the other is incorrect. The coach decided at some point that the rules applied more to Lipinski than pretty much everyone else in the team and was never going to work to fit him and his beautiful face and kick in the side. The opportunity was there, we just decided to redirect it to players who Bevo preferred for whatever reason.

This is so frustrating because it’s another one of those things where I call it, I’m right, and my reward for my insight is my footy team getting made worse.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Been waiting for this one.

Obviously Treloar is better and will probably always be better, but the inference that one begat the other is incorrect. The coach decided at some point that the rules applied more to Lipinski than pretty much everyone else in the team and was never going to work to fit him and his beautiful face and kick in the side. The opportunity was there, we just decided to redirect it to players who Bevo preferred for whatever reason.

This is so frustrating because it’s another one of those things where I call it, I’m right, and my reward for my insight is my footy team getting made worse.

I've been critical of Bevo, but I think Lippa was given ample opportunity to prove himself and failed almost every time. He was even thrown into centre bounces last year (vividly remember the Tigers game) and he was awful in his ability to win the ball but also negate the opposition.

He has nice skills, he's a neat player, but the only thing we should be critical of is the fact we didn't trade him 12 months earlier when he had more value.

[jeemak]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Been waiting for this one.

Obviously Treloar is better and will probably always be better, but the inference that one begat the other is incorrect. The coach decided at some point that the rules applied more to Lipinski than pretty much everyone else in the team and was never going to work to fit him and his beautiful face and kick in the side. The opportunity was there, we just decided to redirect it to players who Bevo preferred for whatever reason.

This is so frustrating because it’s another one of those things where I call it, I’m right, and my reward for my insight is my footy team getting made worse.

Would you have continued to play Lippa these past few years and possibly shoehorned him into another role?

[Happy Days]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Would you have continued to play Lippa these past few years and possibly shoehorned him into another role?

Yes. Over the last two years he was never given a consistent run of games to build off the back of his nice finish to 2019 and really only trialled in two positions with any meaningful effort. We were crying out for a wingman to partner with Hunter but his limitations as a player seemed to write him off as a genuine option in that role. I love Ed but how many countless chances has he been given to show something in similar positions, compared to Lipinski who seemed to get banished from the team for losing track of Trent Cotchin at one stoppage?

I really think the cart was put before the horse with Lipinski. The focus on what he couldn’t do was so overblown and we let a talent leave for nothing.

[mjp]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Would you have continued to play Lippa these past few years and possibly shoehorned him into another role?

I understand what HD is saying but you can only play 22.

Once Treloar came in, it really did compress Lipinski's opportunities. What 'OTHER' role would the kid play? We are flooded with half-backs...outside mid/half forward was a chance I suppose (and the R. Smith role was to me one he COULD have played - but Smith seemed to want it 'more' and was prepared to do the sacrificial running required to win and keep the spot)...

I don't disagree that Treloar is "BETTER" - but that doesn't mean it wasn't a sliding doors moment.

[1eyedog]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

I am comfortable with where it sits, although I concede Lippa will be a major ball magnet at Collingwood way after Treloar has retired.

Treloar is much more likely to be a major game changer when it matters.

Agreed but we are in our window and this is the precise time to bring in late 20 year old experienced talent in the hope that you maximise your time in the sun. Treloar offers us so much more now than Lippa possibly does in 2-3 years.

[jeemak]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Yes. Over the last two years he was never given a consistent run of games to build off the back of his nice finish to 2019 and really only trialled in two positions with any meaningful effort. We were crying out for a wingman to partner with Hunter but his limitations as a player seemed to write him off as a genuine option in that role. I love Ed but how many countless chances has he been given to show something in similar positions, compared to Lipinski who seemed to get banished from the team for losing track of Trent Cotchin at one stoppage?

I really think the cart was put before the horse with Lipinski. The focus on what he couldn’t do was so overblown and we let a talent leave for nothing.

Thanks. I understand what you're saying I guess, and I really do get annoyed when it seems some player weaknesses are emphasised in preferences and strengths are ignored.

However, in the case of Richards the coach has talked of him (as with Dale and Williams) as having standout attributes that need to be exposed at the top level as much as possible which is why they have all been given a lot of chances. Possibly the thinking with Lippa was his standout attributes were a bit same same to others who are better able to use them.

Good to have you back mate.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

However, in the case of Richards the coach has talked of him (as with Dale and Williams) as having standout attributes that need to be exposed at the top level as much as possible which is why they have all been given a lot of chances. Possibly the thinking with Lippa was his standout attributes were a bit same same to others who are better able to use them..

This is the key to being a good player at the top level.

Unfortunately, Lippa didn't have any standout trait and his weaknesses (lack of intensity and pace) are two critical downfalls for his positions.

Richards (good 1-v-1, great pace), Dale (pace and skill), D Morris (pace/intensity), Ed Langdon (pace, worth ethic) are some random examples that spring to mind.

Going the other way, players like Schache (Lack of pace and intensity), Lippa (ditto), Jack Watts (ditto) can find it difficult even if their footy IQ is high.

[Mantis]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Yes. Over the last two years he was never given a consistent run of games to build off the back of his nice finish to 2019 and really only trialled in two positions with any meaningful effort. We were crying out for a wingman to partner with Hunter but his limitations as a player seemed to write him off as a genuine option in that role. I love Ed but how many countless chances has he been given to show something in similar positions, compared to Lipinski who seemed to get banished from the team for losing track of Trent Cotchin at one stoppage?

I really think the cart was put before the horse with Lipinski. The focus on what he couldn’t do was so overblown and we let a talent leave for nothing.

It was Jack Graham... and to your point Bailey Smith does the same thing (lose his opponent) continually at stoppages, but Baz does have nice hair which trumps a nice face.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Treloar can be BOG regularly within our mid set up. Lippa not so much.

Even if Adam is only 20% better, but paid 50% more… you ultimately need the best quality 22 each week. Adam is better than Lippa.

[Mofra]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Would this debate be a little different if we were paying for all of Treloar's contract?

[Mitcha]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Simple answer for the here and now while our window is open is that Treloar is the better option. He has line breaking speed and an ability to change a game in ten minutes. Lippa while having good footy IQ and a great field kick would not be a best 22 with us most weeks as he would not be playing the role he is at Collingwood presently.

[1eyedog]

Re: Adam Treloar or Pat Lipinski...there can be only one.

Would this debate be a little different if we were paying for all of Treloar's contract?

Great question. My feeling is that we wouldn't have been able to pay all of Treloar's contract without bleeding a best 22 player. If we could have afforded him at 100% of his contract value and not bled a best 22 player I'd probably do it. We know we have to pay overs to get elite talent in the 25-28 age bracket into our club. We always have. If we had that sort of cap available though I'd have started trying to prise out a gun key back before another mid, but that's another story.

I'm not sure the Lippa / Treloar debate is about money as much as it is about Lippa knowing his card was stamped when a better version of him entered the club. His niche skill set and hence opportunity got sucked up in a vacuum as soon as Treloar agreed to come to the club.