Honest reflection and the path forward

[jeemak]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Jee, for what it's worth I think Bevo's fine. He frustrates me with the way we use rucks and our lack of KP depth but he's a very good match day coach.

I understand the first bit about rucks, but not so sure the latter is his doing. I'm sure if you asked whether he would want someone AFL ready and of quality to be available as a genuine KPD he'd be cool with it.

[GVGjr]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I understand the first bit about rucks, but not so sure the latter is his doing. I'm sure if you asked whether he would want someone AFL ready and of quality to be available as a genuine KPD he'd be cool with it.

We just don't bat deep enough with the KPP in my opinion. If he really wanted more he would get it.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

We just don't bat deep enough with the KPP in my opinion. If he really wanted more he would get it.

Surely they work very closely I don't see them as two separate groups.
They would have constant list management meetings, and I'm sure Bevo has the final say.

[Happy Days]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

We can think that we tried to get some depth by chatting to Soldo or whatever, but the bare facts are that we didn’t and other clubs did. Watching Max Lynch and Peter Ladhams going head to head right now is infuriating to see knowing they were both gettable and we opted to (allegedly) target a worse, contracted player before deciding that another season of Martin was a better option. The Saints had a guy turn up from the SANFL in December who we would kill for right now. The options were there we just didn’t pursue them.

Why on earth we wasted one of our scarce draft picks on McComb over someone who could possibly help this year I’ll never know. Not even a slight on McComb, just that his type was the actual last thing we needed.

[GVGjr]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Surely they work very closely I don't see them as two separate groups.
They would have constant list management meetings, and I'm sure Bevo has the final say.

He would have a lot of say in it.

[mjp]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

we have lost 7 of the last 9 home and away games. An astonishing figure. Now to improve matters add in the finals. 8 of 13.

Which of these were the most difficult? Would have to say the finals - better teams and difficult circumstances. Suggests the talent factor is Okay. So what is the common thread through the losses to lower quality teams?

I am going to agree with you that the ruck is a major factor and I'm not going to comment much more except to say:

1/. I didn't like the recruitment of Martin. To me, if Brisbane couldn't keep him on the park then he simply couldn't stay fit...Combined with a player whose best footy was 100% in the rvm and, well, we've got what we recruited.
2/. By the time Sweet is ready this group will likely be done. I think we are looking 2024/25 not 22/23. I have hope for him though.

Setting that issue (the ruck) aside - we take teams for granted far too often. I wrote a post last year entitled "Our club was born in blood and boots" lamenting the effort we see from our bigger name players (at times). I feel like I am lambasted for criticising Macrae and his on-field body language whenever he is moved out of the centre square. Bont is blowing in and out like the wind. Smith has been amazing this year but is dead-set playing for 1-2 handball give + receive stats which is rubbish and my thoughts on the Treloar recruitment remain well known. Love him as a player, definitely best 22. Unfortunately he plays a position in which we already have strength when so many other areas needed bolstering.

In the Adelaide game - our reliance on inexperienced players in key positions really hurt us. Late in the game the ball was kicked forward to Jamarra who was in a 2-v-3 contest...but in front. His options were simple:
1/. Get it out of bounds, wait for the cavalry to arrive and live to fight another day.
2/. Roll the dice, keep it in by tap-tap-tapping it around and hoping for the best.

He chose option 2. He failed to recognise the importance of the moment (that's OK - he's played like 5 games) and Adelaide took the ball away and scored at the other end. Game.

Now - we can lament the loss of Bruce and blame the fact that Jamarra was the deepest and therefore the key target on injury. But I think that would be a mistake...because his MINDSET in this moment has been inherited from his team-mates.

I just think our mindset is ALL WRONG though. We treat the opposition with zero regard. Our mids zone off continuously, our forwards (exception of Naughton) go through the motions with regards applying pressure...as a result, our defenders are constantly chasing butt.

We give the opposition a look every week - our effort is not unacceptable by and large...but we don't play ruthless footy. We all want to play 'nice' footy, pretty footy...I still say we have too many who would rather LOOK good than BE good. I think our mids would all rather look at their name on the internet with a big number in the possession count than a 'W' in the win column. And I know when I say that (because I have before) I am told it isn't true and they are trying hard and don't I know there are AA players in there etc.

I know the guys I am talking about are magnificent players and I sincerely admire some of the things I have seen them produce on the footy field. But when Cripps runs around and does what he wants. When Ben Keys finishes with 33 (or whatever) and runs riot in the last q...when Petracca goes absolutely STUPID in the grand final (I mean, the GRAND FINAL) and not one player takes it upon themselves to actually DO SOMETHING about it, well, I think this means that there is something just a little bit awry with our outlook.

I'm rambling again now and I've probably ridden this horse into town too many times now to be taken seriously but if the keys to the 2016 win were the commitment shown by Morris and Liber on the defensive side of the game together with the marking of Boyd providing us a pathway out of D50, well, who is there to perform those crucial (but pretty fundamentally SIMPLE) acts in 2022?

The Adelaide loss doesn't worry me as such - it's one point and whilst they deserved the points we nearly pinched it. But the continued effort based lapses are 100% a pattern and it really is time for the players to acknowledge it and FIX it. Believe it or not, they need to fix this as individuals....as in, "I am going to do it" rather than making it a 'collective' solution...a collective answer to this question (effort and defensive accountability) means one thing to me - we have players who are trying to hide behind the group when each person needs to be held to account.

[Bornadog]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

We just don't bat deep enough with the KPP in my opinion. If he really wanted more he would get it.

Forward or back?

Naughton
JUH
Bruce
Schache
Keath,
Gardner

Plus Darcy unknown

[Mofra]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Forward or back?

Naughton
JUH
Bruce
Schache
Keath,
Gardner

Plus Darcy unknown

Given Marra & Darcy are developing, Keath injury prone since age 17, Bruce out with an ACL... that would have to be the thinnest KPP group in the AFL.

[azabob]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I am going to agree with you that the ruck is a major factor and I'm not going to comment much more except to say:

1/. I didn't like the recruitment of Martin. To me, if Brisbane couldn't keep him on the park then he simply couldn't stay fit...Combined with a player whose best footy was 100% in the rvm and, well, we've got what we recruited.
2/. By the time Sweet is ready this group will likely be done. I think we are looking 2024/25 not 22/23. I have hope for him though.

Setting that issue (the ruck) aside - we take teams for granted far too often. I wrote a post last year entitled "Our club was born in blood and boots" lamenting the effort we see from our bigger name players (at times). I feel like I am lambasted for criticising Macrae and his on-field body language whenever he is moved out of the centre square. Bont is blowing in and out like the wind. Smith has been amazing this year but is dead-set playing for 1-2 handball give + receive stats which is rubbish and my thoughts on the Treloar recruitment remain well known. Love him as a player, definitely best 22. Unfortunately he plays a position in which we already have strength when so many other areas needed bolstering.

In the Adelaide game - our reliance on inexperienced players in key positions really hurt us. Late in the game the ball was kicked forward to Jamarra who was in a 2-v-3 contest...but in front. His options were simple:
1/. Get it out of bounds, wait for the cavalry to arrive and live to fight another day.
2/. Roll the dice, keep it in by tap-tap-tapping it around and hoping for the best.

He chose option 2. He failed to recognise the importance of the moment (that's OK - he's played like 5 games) and Adelaide took the ball away and scored at the other end. Game.

Now - we can lament the loss of Bruce and blame the fact that Jamarra was the deepest and therefore the key target on injury. But I think that would be a mistake...because his MINDSET in this moment has been inherited from his team-mates.

I just think our mindset is ALL WRONG though. We treat the opposition with zero regard. Our mids zone off continuously, our forwards (exception of Naughton) go through the motions with regards applying pressure...as a result, our defenders are constantly chasing butt.

We give the opposition a look every week - our effort is not unacceptable by and large...but we don't play ruthless footy. We all want to play 'nice' footy, pretty footy...I still say we have too many who would rather LOOK good than BE good. I think our mids would all rather look at their name on the internet with a big number in the possession count than a 'W' in the win column. And I know when I say that (because I have before) I am told it isn't true and they are trying hard and don't I know there are AA players in there etc.

I know the guys I am talking about are magnificent players and I sincerely admire some of the things I have seen them produce on the footy field. But when Cripps runs around and does what he wants. When Ben Keys finishes with 33 (or whatever) and runs riot in the last q...when Petracca goes absolutely STUPID in the grand final (I mean, the GRAND FINAL) and not one player takes it upon themselves to actually DO SOMETHING about it, well, I think this means that there is something just a little bit awry with our outlook.

I'm rambling again now and I've probably ridden this horse into town too many times now to be taken seriously but if the keys to the 2016 win were the commitment shown by Morris and Liber on the defensive side of the game together with the marking of Boyd providing us a pathway out of D50, well, who is there to perform those crucial (but pretty fundamentally SIMPLE) acts in 2022?

The Adelaide loss doesn't worry me as such - it's one point and whilst they deserved the points we nearly pinched it. But the continued effort based lapses are 100% a pattern and it really is time for the players to acknowledge it and FIX it. Believe it or not, they need to fix this as individuals....as in, "I am going to do it" rather than making it a 'collective' solution...a collective answer to this question (effort and defensive accountability) means one thing to me - we have players who are trying to hide behind the group when each person needs to be held to account.

Firstly thanks for such an expansive post.

Out of the experts in the footy media only you and HB Meyers from the mongrel punt were questioning the recruitment of Treloar. My two questions are which midfielders would you look to trade and secondly why hasn’t the coaching group tried to fix the stat padding and one way running? Or do the coaching group not value a defensive mindset?

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

I am going to agree with you that the ruck is a major factor and I'm not going to comment much more except to say:

[Bornadog]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Given Marra & Darcy are developing, Keath injury prone since age 17, Bruce out with an ACL... that would have to be the thinnest KPP group in the AFL.

Just asking what we need, forward or back.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Just asking what we need, forward or back.

Back defintely. Look at Melbourne's KPF's

Ben Brown. Tom Mcdonald. Sam Weidemann.

[Bornadog]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Back defintely. Look at Melbourne's KPF's

Ben Brown. Tom Mcdonald. Sam Weidemann.

McDonald dropped this week

[Grantysghost]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

McDonald dropped this week

Are they all forwards? Yes. Mcdonald was a defender but been a forward for years.

[josie]

Re: Honest reflection and the path forward

Thought provoking post mjp. The lack of accountability when other sides mids are off the leash is my biggest complaint, been happening for a while. Bevo seriously needs to think about tagging. It’s clear we are not as good as we thought we were in the midfield.

And there’s not much tall timber in the vfl side either. Our Achilles heel of not enough talls of high enough quality bites again. We just don’t seem to be able to develop and then hold good talls. If we lose English this will really compound the problem.