WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

[azabob]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Have we though? Aside from Cavarra (who was pretty workmanlike as far as crumbing forwards go) I can't think of us trying a genuine crumbing natural goalkicker type in at least a decade. Weightman I guess is ballpark but it seems he is more medium forward.

It isn't as if this type is expensive to acquire like key forwards either, virtually all the natural small forwards in the league were late picks or rookies.

It is the game day thread. So the baby goes out with the bath water.

[EasternWest]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Are we serious in here? Naughton kicked 51 goals this season, is like 22, and is only gonna improve. Firstly if we choosing one of he and Darcy to play back it isn't Naughton, and secondly there is no way anyone at the club is even considering sending our only actually great forward (and only really weightman is proven good atm) down back.

I've agreed with this entirely during the whole "Naughton back" conversation for the reason you've said, but if we're determined to blood Darcy in the forward line there's just no room for three talls (4 if you throw in Lobb and 5 with Bruce and ok yeah we're not gonna play all 5 at once yada yada) something's got to give.

[Bornadog]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Chris Grant kicked 50 in his first year and was one of the all time greats and went back for the sake of the team.

It's a compliment to Naughton really that he's a swingman.

Id move him dependant on match ups.

Chris didn't go back till late in his career

[Bornadog]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Have we though? Aside from Cavarra (who was pretty workmanlike as far as crumbing forwards go) I can't think of us trying a genuine crumbing natural goalkicker type in at least a decade. Weightman I guess is ballpark but it seems he is more medium forward.

It isn't as if this type is expensive to acquire like key forwards either, virtually all the natural small forwards in the league were late picks or rookies.

I need to go back and check, but there were a few starting with Honeychurch

[Grantysghost]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Chris didn't go back till late in his career

I didn't say when

[Grantysghost]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Heat map interesting.

Freo owned the corridor.

[Grantysghost]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

For those gagging for this :

Pressure acts :

Dunkley 33
Treloar 28
Bont 26
LVDM 24
......
Weightman 10

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Is anyone else worried about Weightman?

Im sure I'm on my own here but I actually don't rate his game. I know, I know, he finished the season with 30 something goals which looks good on paper but without looking at averages he seems good for maybe 1-2 goals a game and 6-10 possessions. That might be enough if other parts of his game were strong, namely the ability to pressure, but that side of his game is poor.

He continually flys for the high ball and doesn't impact the contest (leaving us outnumbered on the ground), he has NO IDEA how to centre his gravity to apply a tackle (which is why 9/10 times he goes flying past the opposition), the last of which means he offers basically zero heat on the ball/opposition.

For about 115 minutes every game, I think he's a liability. He doesn't get the free kicks he used to and he looks like he's ice skating with how often he falls over.

That these issues continue to feature in his game at this point of his career concern me because it tells me he has NO awareness of his game and his weaknesses, and neither do the coaches or senior players. Or the latter do, tell him, and he doesn't listen. But still play him.

He clearly has some talent and maybe it's a symptom of him not being a good fit for our current setup, but his game downright infuriates me and I'd have no issue with us seeing what we could get for him on the open market.

[Mantis]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

For those gagging for this :

Pressure acts :

Dunkley 33
Treloar 28
Bont 26
LVDM 24
......
Weightman 10

Frankly I couldn’t give a *!*!*!*! how many pressure acts VDM has… he’s a liability when he has or is near the ball… and that’s what matters.

[Scorlibo]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Is anyone else worried about Weightman?

Im sure I'm on my own here but I actually don't rate his game. I know, I know, he finished the season with 30 something goals which looks good on paper but without looking at averages he seems good for maybe 1-2 goals a game and 6-10 possessions. That might be enough if other parts of his game were strong, namely the ability to pressure, but that side of his game is poor.

He continually flys for the high ball and doesn't impact the contest (leaving us outnumbered on the ground), he has NO IDEA how to centre his gravity to apply a tackle (which is why 9/10 times he goes flying past the opposition), the last of which means he offers basically zero heat on the ball/opposition.

For about 115 minutes every game, I think he's a liability. He doesn't get the free kicks he used to and he looks like he's ice skating with how often he falls over.

That these issues continue to feature in his game at this point of his career concern me because it tells me he has NO awareness of his game and his weaknesses, and neither do the coaches or senior players. Or the latter do, tell him, and he doesn't listen. But still play him.

He clearly has some talent and maybe it's a symptom of him not being a good fit for our current setup, but his game downright infuriates me and I'd have no issue with us seeing what we could get for him on the open market.

The points you make are fair, he has only consolidated his 2021 season without improving. He's kicked more goals but only because he's converted well. He needs to be more than an opportunist for us. I'd like to see him work on his tank during the off-season, come back ready to get up the field and try and become that assist player. Clear out of the fifty to create space, push back hard to be front and centre. The Giansiracusa model.

I'm not worried about his future, he's a ripping citizen and has shown plenty at his age, but he does need to keep on improving to help take us further.

[macca]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Is anyone else worried about Weightman?

Im sure I'm on my own here but I actually don't rate his game. I know, I know, he finished the season with 30 something goals which looks good on paper but without looking at averages he seems good for maybe 1-2 goals a game and 6-10 possessions. That might be enough if other parts of his game were strong, namely the ability to pressure, but that side of his game is poor.

He continually flys for the high ball and doesn't impact the contest (leaving us outnumbered on the ground), he has NO IDEA how to centre his gravity to apply a tackle (which is why 9/10 times he goes flying past the opposition), the last of which means he offers basically zero heat on the ball/opposition.

For about 115 minutes every game, I think he's a liability. He doesn't get the free kicks he used to and he looks like he's ice skating with how often he falls over.

That these issues continue to feature in his game at this point of his career concern me because it tells me he has NO awareness of his game and his weaknesses, and neither do the coaches or senior players. Or the latter do, tell him, and he doesn't listen. But still play him.

He clearly has some talent and maybe it's a symptom of him not being a good fit for our current setup, but his game downright infuriates me and I'd have no issue with us seeing what we could get for him on the open market.

Excellent points. I am concerned that Weightmane does not know his centre of gravity and loses his feet too often. Walters and Federicks last night were excellent with keeping their feet and balance. Even if they were out of the contest they found a way to get back in it.

Wish we had a decent crumbing small forward who can tackle and keep their feet.

[Grantysghost]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Frankly I couldn’t give a *!*!*!*! how many pressure acts VDM has… he’s a liability when he has or is near the ball… and that’s what matters.

How dare you good sir.

Pressure is kind of important, it's part of the game plan.

Yes he was awful last night with the ball.

But not through lack of effort.

Do you disregard Dunkley's 33 also? (highest since I've been closely monitoring them for woof as per GvGs request, be the PA champion GG, they'll love it he said).

[jeemak]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Is anyone else worried about Weightman?

Im sure I'm on my own here but I actually don't rate his game. I know, I know, he finished the season with 30 something goals which looks good on paper but without looking at averages he seems good for maybe 1-2 goals a game and 6-10 possessions. That might be enough if other parts of his game were strong, namely the ability to pressure, but that side of his game is poor.

He continually flys for the high ball and doesn't impact the contest (leaving us outnumbered on the ground), he has NO IDEA how to centre his gravity to apply a tackle (which is why 9/10 times he goes flying past the opposition), the last of which means he offers basically zero heat on the ball/opposition.

For about 115 minutes every game, I think he's a liability. He doesn't get the free kicks he used to and he looks like he's ice skating with how often he falls over.

That these issues continue to feature in his game at this point of his career concern me because it tells me he has NO awareness of his game and his weaknesses, and neither do the coaches or senior players. Or the latter do, tell him, and he doesn't listen. But still play him.

He clearly has some talent and maybe it's a symptom of him not being a good fit for our current setup, but his game downright infuriates me and I'd have no issue with us seeing what we could get for him on the open market.

All of the elements you have mentioned require improvement, though he's very much a work in progress and only finishing up his third season with almost elite goals per game for his position.

Yes he needs to get fitter and stay involved more, yes he needs to be able to put more defencive pressure on, and yes he needs to learn when to fly and when not to. But, all of those elements shouldn't detract from what he CAN and does bring to the team.

He's a keeper for me and he should get better if he is prepared to work on his game diligently. Having said that, the time is now for him to mature and start cutting the annoying bits out of his game.

[Grantysghost]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

All of the elements you have mentioned require improvement, though he's very much a work in progress and only finishing up his third season with almost elite goals per game for his position.

Yes he needs to get fitter and stay involved more, yes he needs to be able to put more defencive pressure on, and yes he needs to learn when to fly and when not to. But, all of those elements shouldn't detract from what he CAN and does bring to the team.

He's a keeper for me and he should get better if he is prepared to work on his game diligently. Having said that, the time is now for him to mature and start cutting the annoying bits out of his game.

Is he treated differently to West, McNeil et al?

West in a final, just felt right after a rest.

[Sedat]

Re: WB Game Day 1st Elimination Final 2022 vs Fremantle

Playing VDM is conceding we lack leg speed in the team. If you compare our small forwards to Fredrick, Switkowski and Schultz, they cover the ground very quickly, which none of our small forwards can do except VDM. In isolation I can sort of understand the rationale for selecting him but he has to have a body of good form to back up the selection, which he didn't have. Injuries have also robbed him of any continuity. It was a poor move to pick him in a sudden death final and expect him to perform the role asked.

Our small forwards as a collective were so disappointing last night, after they laid 25 F50 tackles in R23. We kept it in F50 for repeat entries brilliantly in the first 40 mins of the game but that completely stopped thereafter. Was it workrate, delivery into F50, inability to halve marking contests or a combination of all 3? Our F50 game was horrendous in the last 2.5 qtrs