One way traffic

[Bornadog]

Re: One way traffic

Not sure about the mental bit. Yes they were shot but that was physical from the ordeal of getting to the GF. Incredible effort. They would have gone in on a mental high. They collapsed physically. And coming second carries no shame. I’m still on a high from it.

Their input would have been invaluable. They were the only ones who experienced the crash during the game and they should have been debriefed so the others had facts to process.

I have never been in a football club environment at any level, so I am only guessing. Would love to hear from those that have been?

[Sedat]

Re: One way traffic

Not sure about the mental bit. Yes they were shot but that was physical from the ordeal of getting to the GF. Incredible effort. They would have gone in on a mental high. They collapsed physically. And coming second carries no shame. I’m still on a high from it.

Were they? We had the week off before the GF last year and similarly had the week off before the EF this year. On both occasons we didn't look the slightest bit fatigued immediately before the opposition onslaught began - Melbourne didn't even look like scoring before the floodgates opened in the 2021 GF and neither did Freo on the weekend until mid 2nd qtr.

This is 100% a structure/personnel/tactical issue, and it is now clearly also a mental issue. I'm not giving the club an out based on fatigue - if fatigue was an issue last year it would have been against Brisbane SF or Port PF, but we ran both those games out as well as our opponents. We erred badly not reviewing the GF 12 months ago, and in this game if you aren't prepared to learn lessons you get what you deserve. I hope we take due care to learn the lessons this off-season, and the words are enouraging around already discussing how we can get better post-game and also confirming a proper review of all operations will be conducted.

[Mofra]

Re: One way traffic

How does that compare to other clubs?
If I was to guess, clubs outside the top 6 probably have the same issue and it separates also-rans (like us this year) with the contenders.

The rules committee would look at that and say "the 6-6-6 rule is working!"
The obvious lever to pull to stop that is now gone

[Bornadog]

Re: One way traffic

How does that compare to other clubs?
If I was to guess, clubs outside the top 6 probably have the same issue and it separates also-rans (like us this year) with the contenders.

The rules committee would look at that and say "the 6-6-6 rule is working!"
The obvious lever to pull to stop that is now gone

Even teams in the top 6 have runs of goals against them We did it to Melbourne in round 1 with 8 consecutive goals.

Why was 6-6-6 brought in? To score more and thrash teams? I don't understand what the issue was prior to it.

[Grantysghost]

Re: One way traffic

How does that compare to other clubs?
If I was to guess, clubs outside the top 6 probably have the same issue and it separates also-rans (like us this year) with the contenders.

The rules committee would look at that and say "the 6-6-6 rule is working!"
The obvious lever to pull to stop that is now gone

The rules stifle innovation, it's infuriating.

I get we don't want a rolling maul, but if a coach wants to have 7 or 8 defenders and pull that lever, then it's a risk that they win the clearance and get scored against on the rebound.
It's an equation that balances itself you don't need stupid people telling smart people what they can and can't do.

As for stand.

Embarrassment.

The one that is rarely mentioned is the waltz to the centre to kick it out rule.

I remember seeing this for the first time live in the pre-season game 21 at Marvel v Melbourne.

May was running 20 and launching 50 to near the wing, all of us who were there noted it as a fundamental change to the game.

[Sedat]

Re: One way traffic

How does that compare to other clubs?
If I was to guess, clubs outside the top 6 probably have the same issue and it separates also-rans (like us this year) with the contenders.

The rules committee would look at that and say "the 6-6-6 rule is working!"
The obvious lever to pull to stop that is now gone

If you have a high quality dominant stoppage ruckman (eg: Gawn/Jackson), you can afford to be ultra-assertive in the centre square like Melbourne are/were in 2021 GF. If you have a hard-arse physical/competitive beast as your ruckman (eg: Nank), you can ensure the opposition do not get clean looks in F50 and force them to get dirty ball out of the centre which plays into the turnover game, which is Richmond's specialty.

We aren't really in either camp - we obviously win our fair share of clearances but more often than not it is dirty ball which is susceptible to turnover off half-back, because our mids can never be assertive at stoppages due to our no.1 ruckman being neither a stoppage beast or a competitive/physical beast. English has obvious amazing assets (elite skills especially by foot and elite endurance) but they don't help us at all at stoppage against the best teams and in the big games, and certainly don't help in the 6-6-6 era. It makes him dominant against the slower, limited draught-horse ruckmen but a liability against the elite stoppage ruckmen and physical brutes.

[Topdog]

Re: One way traffic

How does that compare to other clubs?
If I was to guess, clubs outside the top 6 probably have the same issue and it separates also-rans (like us this year) with the contenders.

The rules committee would look at that and say "the 6-6-6 rule is working!"
The obvious lever to pull to stop that is now gone

yeah I'm obviously not going to go through every team and do it but I do note that most afl media do comment on how big momentum is in the game these days.

I still feel like we do it worse than most.

Grabbed all this data from https://afltables.com/afl/teams/bullldogs/allgames.html

[Grantysghost]

Re: One way traffic

If you have a high quality dominant stoppage ruckman (eg: Gawn/Jackson), you can afford to be ultra-assertive in the centre square like Melbourne are/were in 2021 GF. If you have a hard-arse physical/competitive beast as your ruckman (eg: Nank), you can ensure the opposition do not get clean looks in F50 and force them to get dirty ball out of the centre which plays into the turnover game, which is Richmond's specialty.

We aren't really in either camp - we obviously win our fair share of clearances but more often than not it is dirty ball which is susceptible to turnover off half-back, because our mids can never be assertive at stoppages due to our no.1 ruckman being neither a stoppage beast or a competitive/physical beast. English has obvious amazing assets (elite skills especially by foot and elite endurance) but they don't help us at all at stoppage against the best teams and in the big games, and certainly don't help in the 6-6-6 era. It makes him dominant against the slower, limited draught-horse ruckmen but a liability against the elite stoppage ruckmen and physical brutes.

Best post ever.

[Bornadog]

Re: One way traffic

The rules stifle innovation, it's infuriating.

I get we don't want a rolling maul, but if a coach wants to have 7 or 8 defenders and pull that lever, then it's a risk that they win the clearance and get scored against on the rebound.
It's an equation that balances itself you don't need stupid people telling smart people what they can and can't do.

As for stand.

Embarrassment.

The one that is rarely mentioned is the waltz to the centre to kick it out rule.

I remember seeing this for the first time live in the pre-season game 21 at Marvel v Melbourne.

May was running 20 and launching 50 to near the wing, all of us who were there noted it as a fundamental change to the game.

I really hate the Hocking rules that have basically changed the game of footy - not for better not for worse, just changed it and yes embarrassment

[Bullies]

Re: One way traffic

I really hate the Hocking rules that have basically changed the game of footy - not for better not for worse, just changed it and yes embarrassment

yet we just had the best weekend of finals ever. A lot like the rule so we need to get used to it.

[Danjul]

Re: One way traffic

Were they?

This is 100% a structure/personnel/tactical issue, and it is now clearly also a mental issue. I'm not giving the club an out based on fatigue - if fatigue was an issue last year it would have been against Brisbane SF or Port PF, but we ran both those games out as well as our opponents.

Last year they played in Tasmania (cold and wet) then travelled multiple times , locked down Without full ability to train multiple times and their eventual opponent had a much easier couple of weeks (the advantage of a top four finish) and the selection committee caused that.

No comparison with this year. That’s why it was a great performance by the players.

This year was totally different circumstances. And the collapse was more significant and a sign of a serious problem.

[Danjul]

Re: One way traffic

If you have a high quality dominant stoppage ruckman (eg: Gawn/Jackson), you can afford to be ultra-assertive in the centre square like Melbourne are/were in 2021 GF. If you have a hard-arse physical/competitive beast as your ruckman (eg: Nank), you can ensure the opposition do not get clean looks in F50 and force them to get dirty ball out of the centre which plays into the turnover game, which is Richmond's specialty.

We aren't really in either camp - we obviously win our fair share of clearances but more often than not it is dirty ball which is susceptible to turnover off half-back, because our mids can never be assertive at stoppages due to our no.1 ruckman being neither a stoppage beast or a competitive/physical beast. English has obvious amazing assets (elite skills especially by foot and elite endurance) but they don't help us at all at stoppage against the best teams and in the big games, and certainly don't help in the 6-6-6 era. It makes him dominant against the slower, limited draught-horse ruckmen but a liability against the elite stoppage ruckmen and physical brutes.

Excellent analysis of the problem and I like the fact that it is coupled with the insight into where the solution lies.

It also explains why Dunkley, Hannan, etc have magnified the ruck problem when dragged from their nAtural games.

[Grantysghost]

Re: One way traffic

yet we just had the best weekend of finals ever. A lot like the rule so we need to get used to it.

Did we though?

Lions Tigers was like a good home and away game with 0 finals pressure those two teams are making up the numbers.

Demons Swans, again home and away pressure.

One good game really.

Don't believe the hype.

[Danjul]

Re: One way traffic

Did we though?

Lions Tigers was like a good home and away game with 0 finals pressure those two teams are making up the numbers.

Demons Swans, again home and away pressure.

One good game really.

Don't believe the hype.

I watched the four games and really enjoyed three.

[soupman]

Re: One way traffic

I watched the four games and really enjoyed three.

Yeah thought it was a pretty good week of footy.