One way traffic

[Topdog]

It's been bugging me for a while our inability to stop other teams runs but never really saw it mentioned by the media. Decided today to look into it and the results shocked even me. Really tried to limit this to teams scoring 4+ goals without us kicking one but included some 5+ goals to 1. This season that occurred 19 times with 2 other shocking runs included. I'm also pretending the GF didnt happen last year.

Round 1 - Melbourne - 27 point run (29-2), 38 point run (40-2) and 24 point run (24-0)
Round 2 - Carlton - 30 point run (37-7)
Round 3 - Sydney - none
Round 4 - Richmond - 23 point run (31-8) & 42 point run (47-5)
Round 5 - North Melbourn - 32 point run (32-0)
Round 6 - Adelaide - none
Round 7 - Essendon - none
Round 8 - Port Adelaide - 24 point run (24-0)
Round 9 - Collingwood - none
Round 10 - Gold Coast - none but outscored 39-14 at one point
Round 11 - West Coast - none
Round 12 - Geelong - 34 point run (38-4)
Round 14 - GWS - none
Round 15 - Hawthorn - 23 point run (30-7)
Round 16 - Brisbane - 57 point run (77-20) OR 39 (44-5)
Round 17 - Sydney - 34 point run (41-7) and 28 point run (40-12)
Round 18 - St Kilda - 28 point run (29-1)
Round 19 - Melbourne - 30 point run (30-0) and 24 point run (24-0)
Round 20 - Geelong - 3rd qtr, 47 point loss (50-3)
Round 21 - Fremantle - 32 point run (39-7)
Round 22 - GWS - none
Round 23 - Hawthorn - 25 point run (25-0)
EF - Fremantle - 54 point turnaround (72-18)

Lack of on field leadership? No plan B? I dont know but something is seriously wrong in the kennel.

[mjp]

Re: One way traffic

That's even worse than I thought.

[Grantysghost]

Re: One way traffic

That's incredible, thanks so much for the analysis.

[Boots]

Re: One way traffic

Despite my pessimistic tone in other threads, I'm oddly optimistic about this one. This set of figures shows it's not one player but a systemic problem, and the fact it's a "new" problem shows that we used to be able to stop it. Both of these point to the possibility that it can change back with a coaching tweak, or if something else 'clicks'.

I guess I'm more interested in where the problem came from? I reckon it's got a lot to do with our forward line - we've gone from an undersized forward line with masses of belief, craft and grunt to a very, very tall and inexperienced one with limited forward craft. Imagine all the positioning and running changes required to try and service them, and imagine what it does to a team that was already prone to letting the other team 'get out the back' due to the high forward press.

I have a gut feeling that if we fix the underperforming forward line this problem might go away because suddenly we'll have 'slack' to play with elsewhere on the ground.

[azabob]

Re: One way traffic

How on earth did we actually win games?

Interestingly we lost the Adelaide game yet didn't concede a run of 4 goals+. Makes that loss even worse.

[Bornadog]

Re: One way traffic

Despite my pessimistic tone in other threads, I'm oddly optimistic about this one. This set of figures shows it's not one player but a systemic problem, and the fact it's a "new" problem shows that we used to be able to stop it. Both of these point to the possibility that it can change back with a coaching tweak, or if something else 'clicks'.

I guess I'm more interested in where the problem came from? I reckon it's got a lot to do with our forward line - we've gone from an undersized forward line with masses of belief, craft and grunt to a very, very tall and inexperienced one with limited forward craft. Imagine all the positioning and running changes required to try and service them, and imagine what it does to a team that was already prone to letting the other team 'get out the back' due to the high forward press.

I have a gut feeling that if we fix the underperforming forward line this problem might go away because suddenly we'll have 'slack' to play with elsewhere on the ground.

I have been thinking about this and was wondering have we gone too tall in the forward line??

[Mantis]

Re: One way traffic

I would like to know if we make it a priority to scenario train what we do when teams get a run on.

As a mug punter in the crowd it looks like nothing much changes and we 'just go again', but when the groups get together after a goal are they actively looking to change anything to try and stop the momentum of the opposition?

A proper forensic review of the last 45min of the 2021 GF might have uncovered some leanings that could've helped us this year...but no we just sweep it under the carpet and say we were tired, had bad luck with travel, yadda, yadda, yadda and try to go again... but things got worse and here we are having had a pretty awful year and have to start the whole process from scratch.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: One way traffic

I would like to know if we make it a priority to scenario train what we do when teams get a run on.

As a mug punter in the crowd it looks like nothing much changes and we 'just go again', but when the groups get together after a goal are they actively looking to change anything to try and stop the momentum of the opposition?

A proper forensic review of the last 45min of the 2021 GF might have uncovered some leanings that could've helped us this year...but no we just sweep it under the carpet and say we were tired, had bad luck with travel, yadda, yadda, yadda and try to go again... but things got worse and here we are having had a pretty awful year and have to start the whole process from scratch.

Not reviewing the GF is a diabolical mistake by Bevo and the coaching group / administration.

I mean, PG was having celebration viewing parties in March of 2017 to re-watch the GF so if it was good enough then, why not after a loss?

Not blaming PG mind you but I think it typified our approach to 2017, as did not reviewing the 2021 GF and our efforts in 2022.

The man is an icon of the club, but surely Grant comes under fire for some of this in the review.

[Bornadog]

Re: One way traffic

I would like to know if we make it a priority to scenario train what we do when teams get a run on.

As a mug punter in the crowd it looks like nothing much changes and we 'just go again', but when the groups get together after a goal are they actively looking to change anything to try and stop the momentum of the opposition?

A proper forensic review of the last 45min of the 2021 GF might have uncovered some leanings that could've helped us this year...but no we just sweep it under the carpet and say we were tired, had bad luck with travel, yadda, yadda, yadda and try to go again... but things got worse and here we are having had a pretty awful year and have to start the whole process from scratch.

Do you mean with the players? or just the coaches, because no doubt the coaches would have gone through it and tried to implement a plan.

The biggest issue with the GF was the centre bounce clearances which we didn't stop, however, in 2022 we were the number one CC team.

I know that wasn't the only issue, but shows we did address this glaring issue.

[Mantis]

Re: One way traffic

Do you mean with the players? or just the coaches, because no doubt the coaches would have gone through it and tried to implement a plan.

The biggest issue with the GF was the centre bounce clearances which we didn't stop, however, in 2022 we were the number one CC team.

I know that wasn't the only issue, but shows we did address this glaring issue.

A whole club approach to the review... all key football staff (coaches & admin) and the players.

And it wasn't just the centre work stuff that failed, sure in the madness at the end of the 3rd qtr our centre square was diabolically bad, but there was plenty more that we got wrong on the day including the team we selected. We should've worked out what we got wrong and learnt from it.

[Bornadog]

Re: One way traffic

A whole club approach to the review... all key football staff (coaches & admin) and the players.

And it wasn't just the centre work stuff that failed, sure in the madness at the end of the 3rd qtr our centre square was diabolically bad, but there was plenty more that we got wrong on the day including the team we selected. We should've worked out what we got wrong and learnt from it.

I think it is debatable the players should have been involved in the review. Mentally they were shot in that GF and to bring it all up again, well I don't know whether that is a good idea.

[Sedat]

Re: One way traffic

I'm just a mug punter but there seems to be 2 issues around our alarming trend of conceding multiple goals in a row and being completely unable to turn the tide.

1. Our mids are elite ball winnes and back themselves in to win the ball - they have to do it with a non-competitive stoppage ruckman, so they rightly have confidence in their ability to win clearance and contested ball. Unfortunately bees to the honeypot can be savagely punished at centre bounces in the 6-6-6 era - the last 8 mins of the 3rd qtr in last year's GF the most glaring example but this week was not far behind.

2. Our no 1 ruck is non-competitive at stoppages (centre clearance and boundary in particular) and cannot prevent his opposition counterpart from giving mids quality use at stoppages and clean looks inside their F50.

Maybe it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. Maybe we weren't proactive enough to properly adjust our game style to factor in the 6-6-6 rule change a couple of years ago.

The first point can be rectified with some personnel and structure changes in our mid group - Toby McLean and Jack Macrae as examples can be utilised as George Hewitt style defensive mids and positioned defensive side of stoppage to prevent oppo mids getting clean looks inside F50. McLean looks a natural in this role (he was fantastic early on the weekend and reminded us of how good a player he is) and Macrae could easily adjust and sacrifice his natural game and is very capable of doing this (Cotchin and Pendlebury have done so with great success).

The second point requires an honest assessment of English as a stoppage ruckman and how much it has hurt us in many games in the last 4 years. We have been exceedingly patient and given him ample time to develop his ruck stoppage craft. We have now conceded 27 goals to 3 in run-ons the last 2 finals, which is totally unacceptable and off the charts bad, and a large portion of this amazing stat has been clean opposition clearances from centre bounce and boundary throw-ins. Much of this can be sheeted home to English and his lack of competitiveness against the really good ruckmen in the comp. It's an uncomfortable truth but it is undeniable and has been for the last 4 seasons.

[Mantis]

Re: One way traffic

I think it is debatable the players should have been involved in the review. Mentally they were shot in that GF and to bring it all up again, well I don't know whether that is a good idea.

I think that's a pretty lame excuse... sit down and watch it as a team, pick out the things we could've done better as individuals & as a team and we move on.

Every business I've been involved in investigates major incidents including workplace fatalities. It determines root causes, changes procedures & policies, assigns corrective actions and then communicates it's findings to the key stakeholders. That's what the corporate world does so why is a multi-million dollar footy club any different?

To think our players can't sit through a game of footy because they're mentally damaged is a rather piss poor excuse in the real world.

[MrMahatma]

Re: One way traffic

I think that's a pretty lame excuse... sit down and watch it as a team, pick out the things we could've done better as individuals & as a team and we move on.

Every business I've been involved in investigates major incidents including workplace fatalities. It determines root causes, changes procedures & policies, assigns corrective actions and then communicates it's findings to the key stakeholders. That's what the corporate world does so why is a multi-million dollar footy club any different?

To think our players can't sit through a game of footy because they're mentally damaged is a rather piss poor excuse in the real world.

Gotta agree. I mean, the club has the same goal: win a flag. And it’s not about pointing fingers, particularly if the review is done once list changes are made. So if you’re watching it, you’re part of the future (at least to a degree). Surely players have lost sleep as individuals about how the match went down. Why not at least address it and show a way forward?

It surprised me when it was first mentioned in the off season that we hadn’t gone back and done it. It didn’t feel like the kind of thing our administration would sweep under the carpet.

How have Port looked to address their prelim failures and subsequent missing of finals?
Maybe there’s no “right” way, but the above list of run ons shows there’s something wrong and it hasn’t been fixed.

The fact we get leads shows we have talent. The fact we lose them… is that pointing to a lack of playing for one another? System? Individuals over team?

[Danjul]

Re: One way traffic

I think it is debatable the players should have been involved in the review. Mentally they were shot in that GF and to bring it all up again, well I don't know whether that is a good idea.

Not sure about the mental bit. Yes they were shot but that was physical from the ordeal of getting to the GF. Incredible effort. They would have gone in on a mental high. They collapsed physically. And coming second carries no shame. I’m still on a high from it.

Their input would have been invaluable. They were the only ones who experienced the crash during the game and they should have been debriefed so the others had facts to process.