Rory Lobb

[Danjul]

Re: Rory Lobb

That's a good argument.

Historically I agree with your position English is not my preferred ruck type, someone like Nank would be perfect for us considering our mids tend to close up when the heat is on. A big aggressive ruckman is exactly what we need but you know as well as I do that Bevo is not going to 180 on English in the ruck.

We've lost a lot of opportunities with English but we've also invested way too much. Bevo is just going to have to sail this ship to port. Also, if one was to single English out for our poor finals showings this would be a tad unfair when other important players have also failed to live up to their end of the bargain. The other positive to English's game, unlike other ruckmen like Darcy and Nank is he kicks goals. He's a 20 goal a year ruckman. Can't be understated.

My strong feeling on the Lobb aquisition is that getting him in to assist is absolutely dealing with this issue as far as Bevo et al. are concerned.

It certainly should be. Both English and Darcy kicked 10 goals this year.

The true reason he is played in a way that limits the team success at times is someone has limited imagination about English’s true talent. We should not have spent the last few years devoting all energy shoring up falsehoods.

[Sedat]

Re: Rory Lobb

That's a good argument.

Historically I agree with your position English is not my preferred ruck type, someone like Nank would be perfect for us considering our mids tend to close up when the heat is on. A big aggressive ruckman is exactly what we need but you know as well as I do that Bevo is not going to 180 on English in the ruck.

We've lost a lot of opportunities with English but we've also invested way too much. Bevo is just going to have to sail this ship to port. Also, if one was to single English out for our poor finals showings this would be a tad unfair when other important players have also failed to live up to their end of the bargain. The other positive to English's game, unlike other ruckmen like Darcy and Nank is he kicks goals. He's a 20 goal a year ruckman. Can't be understated.

My strong feeling on the Lobb aquisition is that getting him in to assist is absolutely dealing with this issue as far as Bevo et al. are concerned.

When push comes to shove, if we aren't going to make a serious play for a genuine elite Grundy type. I don't want to see English rucking 90% game time on his own ever again. He is not up to it physically, competitively or in actual ruck craft to be the sole ruck he craves. Lobb doing up to 50% of the duties is a scenario that cannot possibly be worse than conceding 27 goals to 3 in opposition bursts the last 2 finals.

It must be said that English doesn't carry the can on his own for our stoppage/clearance woes in finals - our mids have been far too aggressive and not respectful enough to the clearance capabilities of the opposition mids in these devastating runs. However, English simply has to be much, much more physical. Sean Darcy and even Lobb toyed with him on the weekend and it was a thoroughly sub-par performance - I can (barely) accept a vastly more experienced Paddy Ryder toying with English at stoppages (especially boundary throw-ins) in a final 2 years ago but not now and not against someone younger. If English wants to be the big dog, he needs to accept the feedback that his efforts in our last 2 finals have been incredibly poor and not anywhere near the basic competitive standard required in finals.

[1eyedog]

Re: Rory Lobb

It certainly should be. Both English and Darcy kicked 10 goals this year.

The true reason he is played in a way that limits the team success at times is someone has limited imagination about English’s true talent. We should not have spent the last few years devoting all energy shoring up falsehoods.

You're right, English kicked 20 last year; however, English has kicked one more than Darcy this year and played 4 less games. Goals are golden in our team and English is a goal kicking ruckman (or as others have rightfully alluded to a goal kicking 2nd ruck).

As for pigeonholing Tim into the ruck role so early in his career I 100% agree with you.

I'd love to get Grundy but it just isn't going to happen.

[Scraggers]

Re: Rory Lobb

Even if we get Lobb, we should also have another developing ruck on our list

Couldn't agree more ... just not a 30+ someone (Lobb) in my opinion

[Danjul]

Re: Rory Lobb

You're right, English kicked 20 last year; however, English has kicked one more than Darcy this year and played 4 less games. Goals are golden in our team and English is a goal kicking ruckman (or as others have rightfully alluded to a goal kicking 2nd ruck).

I agree with you here. If he had been allowed to develop as a second ruck he would be better now and the team would have been more successful recently.

The true test of the home and away games is finishing top four, and we haven’t been able to do it while a young English has been our sole ruckman. Now is when he should be being introduced to the role, but he was never given a proper apprenticeship.

[Mofra]

Re: Rory Lobb

Even if we get Lobb, we should also have another developing ruck on our list

100% yes.
They're are still good ones to be found and developed from the rookie list. The Big O was taken as a rookie in the Tim English draft.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Rory Lobb

Even if we get Lobb, we should also have another developing ruck on our list

Definitely, but we don't seem to look at them too often.

I still think Sweet can be useful, his tap work, IMO, is really good but seemed to have gone backwards in other areas, even at VFL level which he used to do quite well. I haven't given up on him.

[Bornadog]

Re: Rory Lobb

Definitely, but we don't seem to look at them too often.

I still think Sweet can be useful, his tap work, IMO, is really good but has seem to have gone backwards in other areas, even at VFL level which he used to do quite well. I haven't given up on him.

Yes, I would also keep him going and see if he can improve. He is only 24.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Rory Lobb

I just don't understand how a forward line of Lobb, Darcy, JUH, and Naughton works. Our current forward line is not working; all forward flying for balls lobbed (pardon the pun) into our forward fifty only to have it spoiled then repelled to the opposition F50 for a scoring shot. We aren't hitting lead-up forwards ... we are just kicking and hoping. Adding Lobb to it will only make it more congested.

People on here are adamant that Naughton can't play back, we need him forward and then in the same breath saying something has to change. If we are going after Lobb, he plays forward and cuts out in the ruck when English needs a break. Then Naughton plays back and shores up our defence. With Liam Jones and Gardner we would have a more agile back line.

I voted no, we don't need him. But it seems as though we will get him

It doesn't. Darcy play's back

[GVGjr]

Re: Rory Lobb

I just don't understand how a forward line of Lobb, Darcy, JUH, and Naughton works. Our current forward line is not working; all forward flying for balls lobbed (pardon the pun) into our forward fifty only to have it spoiled then repelled to the opposition F50 for a scoring shot. We aren't hitting lead-up forwards ... we are just kicking and hoping. Adding Lobb to it will only make it more congested.

People on here are adamant that Naughton can't play back, we need him forward and then in the same breath saying something has to change. If we are going after Lobb, he plays forward and cuts out in the ruck when English needs a break. Then Naughton plays back and shores up our defence. With Liam Jones and Gardner we would have a more agile back line.

I voted no, we don't need him. But it seems as though we will get him

Plus you need to add Bruce to this mix. I don't think Bruce is a spent force, he could get back to somewhere near his 2021 form in 2023.
I have no problems holding back Darcy for a bit longer but we have a juggling act that we will need to manage.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Rory Lobb

Plus you need to add Bruce to this mix.
I have no problems holding back Darcy for a bit longer but we have a juggling act that we will need to manage.

He's been with us 3 years. Id be ok if that was it.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Rory Lobb

Plus you need to add Bruce to this mix. I don't think Bruce is a spent force, he could get back to somewhere near his 2021 form in 2023.
I have no problems holding back Darcy for a bit longer but we have a juggling act that we will need to manage.

This is where I feel we're overreaching slightly with Lobb, because I agree Bruce will offer more next year - who could forget the turnaround from 2020 to 2021 in his form after a full pre-season?

Lobb, Bruce, Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, Darcy. Five key forwards. Lobb slots into the forward/ruck role, and the other four compete for two spots. Naughton will play, so that's then Darcy, Bruce and Ugle-Hagan fighting for one spot.

Two months ago I wouldn't have any problem holding Darcy back, he seemed to be miles off the pace without a pre-season and coming back from injury (and still growing!) Look at his finish to the season though, started dominating VFL games, then came in and had 14 intercepts in his first two games down back, then took 6 marks inside fifty in his first two games up forward.

He'll be much better again next year with a pre-season behind him. We can play him behind the ball, but all of his learned craft is up forward.

There've been a few suggestions to send Naughton to the backline and given the circumstances it's not crazy. Every time I wrestle with the proposition though I'm reminded of him having kicked nearly 100 goals in the last two seasons. That's a rare feat - we have to go back to Stringer's 2015/16 seasons for similar output. He's still improving up forward too. In 2021 I think something like all but one of his goals came from set shots? This year the majority seem to have come from snaps. If we can support him to get the marking game going again, and split the difference between the last two seasons, he could take another big step.

Then in the background there's Schache who based on his finish to the VFL season should be in AFL contention too.

That's a lot of headaches created for the sake of a 20 minutes per game second ruck, who might only last two more seasons before his body gives way.

Now having said all of that, competitive selection is good, and bringing in quality players is always good, so I'm not against Lobb coming to us, but the price has to be right. An end of second round pick is the maximum I'd like to see us give up to get him.

[GVGjr]

Re: Rory Lobb

Scorlibo, thanks for the post and it echo's my thoughts that we will have some challenges bringing in Lobb for next season.
12 months back and knowing Bruce would miss a lot of the season he would have been a perfect fit for us but things change quickly in the AFL and the emergence of JUH, promising signs Darcy and a returning Bruce and we now have a bit of a logjam to manage.
He's still a very good fit for us particularly given he's a massive upgrade on current 2nd ruck options on game day but it's going to create some challenges. Our reluctance to use Schache, for some good reasons, has created a need to get a replacement.

[Scraggers]

Re: Rory Lobb

It doesn't. Darcy play's back

Darcy is not a backman.

[Mantis]

Re: Rory Lobb

This is where I feel we're overreaching slightly with Lobb, because I agree Bruce will offer more next year - who could forget the turnaround from 2020 to 2021 in his form after a full pre-season?

Lobb, Bruce, Naughton, Ugle-Hagan, Darcy. Five key forwards. Lobb slots into the forward/ruck role, and the other four compete for two spots. Naughton will play, so that's then Darcy, Bruce and Ugle-Hagan fighting for one spot.

Two months ago I wouldn't have any problem holding Darcy back, he seemed to be miles off the pace without a pre-season and coming back from injury (and still growing!) Look at his finish to the season though, started dominating VFL games, then came in and had 14 intercepts in his first two games down back, then took 6 marks inside fifty in his first two games up forward.

He'll be much better again next year with a pre-season behind him. We can play him behind the ball, but all of his learned craft is up forward.

There've been a few suggestions to send Naughton to the backline and given the circumstances it's not crazy. Every time I wrestle with the proposition though I'm reminded of him having kicked nearly 100 goals in the last two seasons. That's a rare feat - we have to go back to Stringer's 2015/16 seasons for similar output. He's still improving up forward too. In 2021 I think something like all but one of his goals came from set shots? This year the majority seem to have come from snaps. If we can support him to get the marking game going again, and split the difference between the last two seasons, he could take another big step.

Then in the background there's Schache who based on his finish to the VFL season should be in AFL contention too.

That's a lot of headaches created for the sake of a 20 minutes per game second ruck, who might only last two more seasons before his body gives way.

Now having said all of that, competitive selection is good, and bringing in quality players is always good, so I'm not against Lobb coming to us, but the price has to be right. An end of second round pick is the maximum I'd like to see us give up to get him.

1/ Bruce is two years older than the start of 2021 and has suffered a serious injury in that time... It's much more unlikely than likely that he gets back to being a very competent AFL player.

2/ That means you have faith in English being a 100 minute per game ruckman.... and based on previous performances it's hard to see that happening, especially against the more physical types where he is still getting rag-dolled.