Sharp Axes

[GVGjr]

Re: Sharp Axes

Aren't we just lucky that they had 3-4 of their better performed players against us missing in May, Fritsch, Viney & Salem.. imagine the carnage that would've been inflicted if they were in the side.

That's the more scary part because May always matches up well on our key forwards, Salem provides run and good use of the footy, Viney a bit of grunt in the middle and Fritsch hurts us on the scoreboard.
With May out that limited them to one intercepting defender in Lever and we couldn't really get someone to keep him in check.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Re: Sharp Axes

It was one of the most deflating starts to a season I can recall.
Only way is up.

I agree. We always seem to find a way to sit on our own balls.

I just want to see a group of players united in spirit and fight. I am prepared to accept we're not good enough - if that's the case, but only once we see our best, against the best, for a full game.

And my frustration won't ease if we win this weekend, but it will rise if we lose. We need to carve out a couple of months of consistent Bulldog's best football to convince me we've learned and are mentally equipped to give it our best shot in 2023

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

That's the more scary part because May always matches up well on our key forwards, Salem provides run and good use of the footy, Viney a bit of grunt in the middle and Fritsch hurts us on the scoreboard.
With May out that limited them to one intercepting defender in Lever and we couldn't really get someone to keep him in check.

Maybe Weightman, Gardner and Jones for a full game could also have made a difference. Or a VDM, R Smith?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Sharp Axes

I agree. We always seem to find a way to sit on our own balls.

I just want to see a group of players united in spirit and fight. I am prepared to accept we're not good enough - if that's the case, but only once we see our best, against the best, for a full game.

And my frustration won't ease if we win this weekend, but it will rise if we lose. We need to carve out a couple of months of consistent Bulldog's best football to convince me we've learned and are mentally equipped to give it our best shot in 2023

I've been wanting to see this for 4 years. Every off-season and start of a new season I stupidly get my hopes up of some change. This off-season especially i had high hopes of change.

The hope and subsequent let-down is what hurts most. This group isn't going to bring change.

[GVGjr]

Re: Sharp Axes

I agree. We always seem to find a way to sit on our own balls.

I just want to see a group of players united in spirit and fight. I am prepared to accept we're not good enough - if that's the case, but only once we see our best, against the best, for a full game.

And my frustration won't ease if we win this weekend, but it will rise if we lose. We need to carve out a couple of months of consistent Bulldog's best football to convince me we've learned and are mentally equipped to give it our best shot in 2023

That is the frustrating part. You can't be a long term Dogs supporter and not be able to accept losses and deal with the fact we might not be good enough but what we were known for and built a reputation on over a number of years was our fighting spirit.

It's the lack of spirit, not the quality of the playing list, that I'm starting to worry about.

[hujsh]

Re: Sharp Axes

Okay football detox over. And it looks like I've missed the coincidental return of Danjul who is definitely not my secret alter ego who expresses all my doubts and worries so don't even think that that could be the case.

Calling for the coach to be sacked round 1 is some old school Richmond shit. I get the issues are not new but nevertheless it's something we can assess end of year or second half of the year if things get really bad.

I think it's tricky, Bevo has on paper been objectively successful. But by his own criteria he's past his coaching expiry date. He's clearly passionate and could easily have a future in football whether it's as our coach or just about any other role. He could also easily return to normie life.

If we don't make finals then given our list it's time to be a bit ruthless and make a change. If we find the right guy (like Bevo was in 2015) it could easy be a year 1 premiership for this new coach given the list.

If we don't win any finals, baring exceptional circumstances, it's probably the same.

If we win some amount of finals Bevo probably stays.


For now it's just too early. I was thinking about 2007 earlier this week and I noticed others have brought it up as well. It's good perspective to keep in mind. Likewise who thought Richmond was going to be premiers midway through 2017? Need a bit of patience thought I get why that might be in short supply

[Sedat]

Re: Sharp Axes

Aren't we just lucky that they had 3-4 of their better performed players against us missing in May, Fritsch, Viney & Salem.. imagine the carnage that would've been inflicted if they were in the side.

As good as that quartet are (and they are elite), Melbourne are a system based team whose 23-26 ranked players know and understand their role within the team to the letter. Of course these 4 would have made for even more difficult match-ups, which would have moved the needle even further in their favour, but the bigger concern for me is that their system is clearly more robust and gives far more consistent output than our system. They are reliable, as are Geelong, and it appears as are Collingwood under McCrae. As was Richmond for 4 years. Have we been week-to-week reliable for a sustained period of time outside of 2016 and early 2021? Possibly 2nd half of 2015.

[hujsh]

Re: Sharp Axes

As good as that quartet are, Melbourne are a system based team whose 23-26 ranked players know and understand their role within the team to the letter.

The concern for me is that their system is clearly more robust and gives more consistent output than our system.

Objectively true.

[mjp]

Re: Sharp Axes

It was one of the most deflating starts to a season I can recall.
Only way is up.

Well....

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: Sharp Axes

Maybe Weightman, Gardner and Jones for a full game could also have made a difference. Or a VDM, R Smith?

By getting it back to a 50 point margin.

[mjp]

Re: Sharp Axes

...it could easy be a year 1 premiership for this new coach given the list.

Do you really think so?

I just don't think the list is that good. Don't take this for me saying that we don't have talent - we do - but (and use last week as an example - and even the Freo final);

Forward: Small forwards - nothing. Weightman played vs Freo and was a non-factor. Hannan is a 'never was' and pretty much 100% of JJ's positive games have come down the other end.

Tall forwards - Naughton - absolutely A-grade. Jamarra and Darcy are kids and they can't provide consistent effort from moment to moment let alone week-to-week. I agree, Lobb 'shoulda' been better BUT if you look at his history.

Mids - Outside: Baker and Scott are making their way.
Inside: Bont, Macrae, Liber, Treloar and Smith are all amazing obviously...but we have zero 'balance' in that group and each of them could quite comfortably be the '#1' player in an AFL midfield...my issues with this are well documented.

Backs - Tall: Well, Jones is 18-months out and got injured...I'm still concerned he's old and wont be consistent but acknowledge I'm in the minority. Bruce is coming off 10-years as a forward and an ACL repair. Keath seriously appeared to have 'forgotten how to football' last year.
Running: Dale and Daniel are elite but don't defend that much - what they do is awesome tho.
General: Richards, Duryea: Richards is going awesome and been great since mid-season last year, Duryea (to me) is a step off his best...but he's getting older now and needs support.

English: What he does he does well but again - he's at his best in ball movement, running etc...basically, he's the ruck equivalent of our midfield group. I'm probably not explaining this well but if we wanted a strong, competitive presence amongst the mids then neither our starting mids nor our rucks are programmed that way.

Outside of that? Well, we have a heap of unproven kids (McNeil, Garcia, West etc) and a couple of other veterans (TOB, Crozier) who seem to be 'break glass in emergency' type players...

If our mids start working together and really focussing on the RWB getting the footy forward effectively rather than every individual having 30+, well...I suspect we could still win the flag. But I don't think we have so much talent that a new coach could just come in and ride them to victory...

[Bornadog]

Re: Sharp Axes

By getting it back to a 50 point margin.

It was a 50 point margin.

The point is mixing in different players can have a different outcome.

[Sedat]

Re: Sharp Axes

Do you really think so?

I just don't think the list is that good. Don't take this for me saying that we don't have talent - we do - but (and use last week as an example - and even the Freo final);

Forward: Small forwards - nothing. Weightman played vs Freo and was a non-factor. Hannan is a 'never was' and pretty much 100% of JJ's positive games have come down the other end.

Tall forwards - Naughton - absolutely A-grade. Jamarra and Darcy are kids and they can't provide consistent effort from moment to moment let alone week-to-week. I agree, Lobb 'shoulda' been better BUT if you look at his history.

Mids - Outside: Baker and Scott are making their way.
Inside: Bont, Macrae, Liber, Treloar and Smith are all amazing obviously...but we have zero 'balance' in that group and each of them could quite comfortably be the '#1' player in an AFL midfield...my issues with this are well documented.

Backs - Tall: Well, Jones is 18-months out and got injured...I'm still concerned he's old and wont be consistent but acknowledge I'm in the minority. Bruce is coming off 10-years as a forward and an ACL repair. Keath seriously appeared to have 'forgotten how to football' last year.
Running: Dale and Daniel are elite but don't defend that much - what they do is awesome tho.
General: Richards, Duryea: Richards is going awesome and been great since mid-season last year, Duryea (to me) is a step off his best...but he's getting older now and needs support.

English: What he does he does well but again - he's at his best in ball movement, running etc...basically, he's the ruck equivalent of our midfield group. I'm probably not explaining this well but if we wanted a strong, competitive presence amongst the mids then neither our starting mids nor our rucks are programmed that way.

Outside of that? Well, we have a heap of unproven kids (McNeil, Garcia, West etc) and a couple of other veterans (TOB, Crozier) who seem to be 'break glass in emergency' type players...

If our mids start working together and really focussing on the RWB getting the footy forward effectively rather than every individual having 30+, well...I suspect we could still win the flag. But I don't think we have so much talent that a new coach could just come in and ride them to victory...

Sobering assessment, in particular the bolded bits.

1: Small forwards. We basically invented the prototype chaos territory gameplan that killed off the Hawthorn precision short kicking uncontested possession game plan of 2012-2015. Richmond then refined and perfected this, with their cluster of small forwards all knowing their role and providing relentless speed and pressure to maintain territory. Did we not see this trend further evolving, when we were the architects of it in the first place? McNeill and Scott have their limitations, but we have never looked better since 2016 than when these 2 understood their role as relentless small pressure forwards in the first 6 rounds of 2021. Not saying they are the answer now, but the balance was right in early 2021 with these 2 as role players inside F50. Weightman is not a small pressure forward and will never be. He is basically Jamie Elliott, which is still awesome but doesn't help retain the ball inside F50.

2: Inside mids. The balance is askew and has been for years. Who is going to sacrifice their ball-winning game and evolve for the overall benefit of the team like Angus Brayshaw did for Melbourne at the start of 2021? Or like Matty Boyd did in 2015. We can't continue to go bees to the honeypot and get killed on the spread from turnover and have our one-paced midfield exposed on the counter. Dirty clearances (of which we excel in) are going to get picked off with ease by the better teams in the competition.

3: English. Nothing further to add that I haven't said a million times before. If he is not programmed to become a relentless stoppage ruck animal, we are going to continue to compete with one hand tied behind our back at stoppages against the better teams as we have done for the most part since 2019. It's not as though Rhys Stanley is Nank or Ben Hudson, but he managed to become a far more robust stoppage ruckman (to my surprise) in 2022, which went a long way to addressing a critical weakness of Geelong. English by any measure is a superior footballer to Stanley - it's up to him to get angry and become much stronger and uncompromising in the coalface at every single contest against the best where it counts.

[DOG GOD]

Re: Sharp Axes

Great assessments by yourself Sedat and MJP.

Just my 2 cents.
Macrae can run all day, even though he looks like he’s on a tread mill most of the time, and he is the ideal replacement for Hunter. Would he crack the shits playing that role though? Probably, but would it improve the TEAM? I think so. His defensive qualities in the centre square is pretty much non existent. We need someone to sacrifice.

Smith should take the other wing. Plain and simple.

I know majority would disagree with me here but English is NOT a first ruck. He is the one who should be playing the Lobb role. Is 100% better than Lobb in all of marking and agility.

And if it is remotely true about English stating that if he wasn’t the number 1 ruck the would leave, then I would’ve moved him on.

English has proven he is not competive in the big games as #1.

The fact that he still is is an indictment on Bevo and the MC as far as I’m concerned.

[hujsh]

Re: Sharp Axes

Do you really think so?

I just don't think the list is that good. Don't take this for me saying that we don't have talent - we do - but (and use last week as an example - and even the Freo final);

Forward: Small forwards - nothing. Weightman played vs Freo and was a non-factor. Hannan is a 'never was' and pretty much 100% of JJ's positive games have come down the other end.

Tall forwards - Naughton - absolutely A-grade. Jamarra and Darcy are kids and they can't provide consistent effort from moment to moment let alone week-to-week. I agree, Lobb 'shoulda' been better BUT if you look at his history.

Mids - Outside: Baker and Scott are making their way.
Inside: Bont, Macrae, Liber, Treloar and Smith are all amazing obviously...but we have zero 'balance' in that group and each of them could quite comfortably be the '#1' player in an AFL midfield...my issues with this are well documented.

Backs - Tall: Well, Jones is 18-months out and got injured...I'm still concerned he's old and wont be consistent but acknowledge I'm in the minority. Bruce is coming off 10-years as a forward and an ACL repair. Keath seriously appeared to have 'forgotten how to football' last year.
Running: Dale and Daniel are elite but don't defend that much - what they do is awesome tho.
General: Richards, Duryea: Richards is going awesome and been great since mid-season last year, Duryea (to me) is a step off his best...but he's getting older now and needs support.

English: What he does he does well but again - he's at his best in ball movement, running etc...basically, he's the ruck equivalent of our midfield group. I'm probably not explaining this well but if we wanted a strong, competitive presence amongst the mids then neither our starting mids nor our rucks are programmed that way.

Outside of that? Well, we have a heap of unproven kids (McNeil, Garcia, West etc) and a couple of other veterans (TOB, Crozier) who seem to be 'break glass in emergency' type players...

If our mids start working together and really focussing on the RWB getting the footy forward effectively rather than every individual having 30+, well...I suspect we could still win the flag. But I don't think we have so much talent that a new coach could just come in and ride them to victory...

Don't get me wrong, my language may not have been perfect but I don't mean it would be a Brad Scott 2011 sit back and let the champion team carry me sort of year by any means. Moreso that a quality coach could come in and quite quickly turn our list of talented players into a quality team capable of winning a premiership.

I know the list itself isn't perfect but if we have anything we have a great core. At least on paper. A new coach, a new system, player buy in, utilizing players utilized talents... Who knows who the next Easton Wood or Lindsay Gilbee is and where they're hiding on our list.

You don't disagree the talent is there so IMO it's either player application or coaching (or some mix and match of both) that's keeping us from being a top team. After all we could similarly dissect just about any other team in the comp and find similar issues with their lists. With the right coaches/systems we wouldn't see our weak points so consistently and thoroughly on display every single week. Never forget WE WON A PREMIERSHIP WITH FLETCHER ROBERTS AS OUR CHB AND ZAIN CORDY AS OUR CHF! The club has clearly communicated they know what the weaknesses are and have tried to address them, it remains to be seen if that work will pay off.

Did anyone here think in 2014 we had the list to even make finals in 2015 let alone win a premiership in 2016? I thought maybe in 2018, 2019 (god damn I'm good at being wrong) but certainly not that soon.