3 things learned from Rd5 2023

[1eyedog]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

West and Garcia have been horrible this year and Benendo might as well be on the long term injury list.

Yep we're really struggling in that 20-22 picked player bracket.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

I think what this confirms pretty soundly is we are a average team. We're not shit. Not great. Just average. The kind of team that would just scape into the 8 (sound familiar?) and will occasionally have good days against good teams and will occasionally have shit days against shit teams.

Port are a similar team so I wasn't really expecting a win with the confidence of other people before the game started. Sure I thought we could win but I didn't think it was a better than 50% chance of happening.

The unfortunate reality is 21 was a blip in an otherwise pretty stable trendline of mediocrity for us. Bont's best years will be wasted. Maybe a better new team will emerge in his twilight.

Gawd. You're right. We've made no real progress under Bevo.
Just tredding water.
The paradox in all that is we've somehow doubled our all time GF record.
He's the best and also sucks.

[Ozza]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

You're missing the point and trying to throw up a lot of stats to confuse the question.

Lets try and get it back to the original point.
You've called out Treloar for getting a lot of kicks by basically coughing it up. That's fair enough but Bont did some of the same things the previous two weeks but it wasn't part of many peoples assessment.
I get that some of his other stats in those previous games are super impressive but he was the turnover king for a couple of weeks and it appears that it's glossed over for many people whereas for Treloar it's highlighted.

"Turnover king"....gee whiz. That's a fair way off the mark.

Bont plays the game under more pressure from the opposition than anyone else, and does have some more clangers at times, but he is generally winning the ball at clearance or kicking inside 50 which have a higher chance of turnover. He also had a high amount of clangers v Brisbane because of the 6 frees against, but meanwhile sent us inside 50 7 times in a very defensively played/high turnover game. He only had 1 clanger v the saints when we butchered it as a team, 4 vs Richmond (when he had 11 clearances and 5 i50s and 2 of the clangers FK against anyway) and zero clangers on Saturday night.

[Mofra]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

We have a worrying trend from our wins that translated into the Port game.
We can't play 'easy'. Everything we do is laboured - kicking goals, moving the ball, clearances.

When we beat Richmond, we smashed them in most key measures and still only won by a kick.

Until we can find 'easy' connection between our backs, mids then forwards we're always going to be vulnerable to teams making a late charge. Then consider the issues with our fitness/run (as noted by comments regarding other clubs doing more running than us during pre-season)

[Ozza]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

I agree that we can't play easy.

But I think we are vulnerable because of the way we choose to defend.

We push up and push up and push up so that there is hardly any space when it is in our end of the ground, and although attacking - spend all of our time on a knife's edge because if we make a turnover we are immediately split open if the opposition connect on 2-3 possessions in a row.

Its an exhausting style to play (and watch) and I don't think we are set up for success. We are very middle of the road, which is not where we should be with our level of talent.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

"Turnover king"....gee whiz. That's a fair way off the mark.

Bont plays the game under more pressure from the opposition than anyone else, and does have some more clangers at times, but he is generally winning the ball at clearance or kicking inside 50 which have a higher chance of turnover. He also had a high amount of clangers v Brisbane because of the 6 frees against, but meanwhile sent us inside 50 7 times in a very defensively played/high turnover game. He only had 1 clanger v the saints when we butchered it as a team, 4 vs Richmond (when he had 11 clearances and 5 i50s and 2 of the clangers FK against anyway) and zero clangers on Saturday night.

He does muff kicks at times. We need to paint the entire picture.
What you've pointed out is very true and he's the best player ever (he's overtaken Grant and Hawk for me) however it's ok to point out flaws I think is the point.

[Bornadog]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

He does muff kicks at times. We need to paint the entire picture.
What you've pointed out is very true and he's the best player ever (he's overtaken Grant and Hawk for me) however it's ok to point out flaws I think is the point.

No, the point was I said Treloar was travelling at 48.6% DE, and was accused not having a go at Bont for his turnovers in previous weeks. The big difference is Bont influences a game, but Treloar's effort on Saturday was a joke for the talent he has. Yes he got 35 disposals but wasted more than half of these.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

No, the point was I said Treloar was travelling at 48.6% DE, and was accused not having a go at Bont for his turnovers in previous weeks. The big difference is Bont influences a game, but Treloar's effort on Saturday was a joke for the talent he has. Yes he got 35 disposals but wasted more than half of these.

I thought Treloar was really good on the weekend tells you how much I know ! Does wet weather affect disposal efficiency ergo is there a degrading effect?

[mjp]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

I thought Treloar was really good on the weekend tells you how much I know ! Does wet weather affect disposal efficient ergo is there a degrading effect?

He was brilliant. Heart and soul performance.

[Mantis]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

No, the point was I said Treloar was travelling at 48.6% DE, and was accused not having a go at Bont for his turnovers in previous weeks. The big difference is Bont influences a game, but Treloar's effort on Saturday was a joke for the talent he has. Yes he got 35 disposals but wasted more than half of these.

Your choice of words really lets you down bad.

[Bornadog]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

Your choice of words really lets you down bad.

Ok, agree I am being harsh, but he is one of my favourites and he really could have done more with his disposals. Time and again he just slammed the ball on his foot and didn't find a team mate. That is all I am really saying.

[Grantysghost]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

Ok, agree I am being harsh, but he is one of my favourites and he really could have done more with his disposals. Time and again he just slammed the ball on his foot and didn't find a team mate. That is all I am really saying.

Isn't that wet weather footy? Get it forward any old how and keep it there?

[Bornadog]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

Isn't that wet weather footy? Get it forward any old how and keep it there?

If you are happy a player can record DE 48.6% - then fine with me.

The point of this discussion was why I didn't have a go at Bont for his Turnovers. My answer was, Bont while turning over the ball alot against Lions I think, also influenced the win and did a lot more.

No big deal we move on.

[GVGjr]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

No, the point was I said Treloar was travelling at 48.6% DE, and was accused not having a go at Bont for his turnovers in previous weeks. The big difference is Bont influences a game, but Treloar's effort on Saturday was a joke for the talent he has. Yes he got 35 disposals but wasted more than half of these.

You weren't accused of anything and were simply asked if Bont's clangers particularly against Brisbane (13) factored into your votes as it did for Treloar.
Your reasoning and responses since has been solid. I didn't give votes to Bont in the Brisbane game for the reason who didn't for Treloar.

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: 3 things learned from Rd5 2023

1. We've legit got a label as uber chokers within the minds of other teams in the comp, of that I'd be positive. In most games, unless we're absolutely 15 goals ahead, other teams must always still have a kernel of belief that they're still a sniff against us. That's not a place you want to be in as a professional team. We've got a lot of work to do to earn back respect.

I have sat on this one for a couple of days and based on feedback from friends and colleagues they dont rate our ability that highly.
The consensus seems to be if teams are in a close contest with us we dont always fight it out. Saints supporters thought we were in a position a couple of times to get back into the game but a lack of desire cost us.