Everyone is RIGHT.

[mjp]

Before I start:
- I have shingles right now and it is kicking my butt pretty bad. I went back to coach (had to miss a game the week before - a 1-point lost which i watched online and did not contribute to a positive health outcome!) on Saturday and by half time was really suffering with the stress induced nerve pain that is shingles...anyway - it was spiking again in the 3rd q vs Hawthorn and because I have like, a real job to go to, I turned the tv off in the interests of getting better....

So a lot of the stuff everyone is no doubt complaining about I didn't watch. But I think everyone knows by now I share in the pain.

To everyone saying we should sack Bevo - you're right. The results this season and over the past 18-months have been unacceptable and it really looks like we just need 'something' to change.

To everyone saying we need to stick with him - well, it's another loss by less than 2 goals...we haven't lost by > 22 points since round 2 - and it really has been a season of inches.

I actually feel sorry for Bevo and the coaches right now. Early in the season we were getting smacked and it makes it pretty simple to say "Right - whack - here's a radical change and you can see why...the results speak for themselves".

It's a hard position we're in right now - we play well and establish a lead so the plan (whatever it is and I seriously don't want to debate it) WORKS and why would we change. THEN, we fall apart and fall short - JUST - with enough of a tease at the end of a couple of games (Hawthorn and Collingwood esp) that indicate if we would simply persist everything would be OK.

Perhaps 3 or 4 close losses are equal to one big defeat and are enough to trigger change? I don't know. I know if I was the coaching team and Bevo in particular I would be having serious pause as our best is so clearly good enough yet something is stopping us from executing the plan for 4-quarters.

I guess this belongs in the 'Sharp Axes' thread (great thread by the way) but I just wanted to create one that sort of says whatever side of the fence you are on you are RIGHT and I hope everyone is able to appreciate the dilemma the club decision makers are in right now.

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

Agree with the sentiment. It is a dilemma.

But this is a binary game. You either win or you lose. It is the harsh reality of sport. That is why we love it. It is a fine line, but we are not getting the job done. That is not up for argument.

We need to confront the brutal facts.

[Bornadog]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

Agree with the sentiment. It is a dilemma.

But this is a binary game. You either win or you lose. It is the harsh reality of sport. That is why we love it. It is a fine line, but we are not getting the job done. That is not up for argument.

We need to confront the brutal facts.

But what are the brutal facts? Why have we lost so many close games? What is needed to go one better? Collingwood have shown the never say die attitude - what can be instilled into players to have the killer instinct, or, is that something you are born with.

What is the next move for the next two weeks and hopefully finals.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

No dilemma if we said to Bevo; let’s talk about your contract at the end of 2023. We are a results based organisation and we believe you will get us to top 4 in 2023 so let’s talk then. There’s no rush.

But nooo. The one older brother had to go and screw it all up.

Two years salary on the line, straight out of the soft cap. We signed BMac early and it cost us. We seemingly want to sign everyone early and then wonder why if best laid plans fail we have/might have to pay out big money for nothing. Did we learn nothing from paying out BMac?

Would Bevo be re-signed right now? Would the club have had clandestine conversations with others just in case we didn’t by now?

[angelopetraglia]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

But what are the brutal facts? Why have we lost so many close games? What is needed to go one better? Collingwood have shown the never say die attitude - what can be instilled into players to have the killer instinct, or, is that something you are born with.

What is the next move for the next two weeks and hopefully finals.

We need to confront the brutal facts that we are not getting the job done. Not make excuses. Then work through answering the questions that you have posed?

But you can only have crucial uncomfortable conversations about those questions if you confront the brutal facts that something systematic is causing us to lose all those close games from winning positions rather than applying blame to external forces.

As I said in a previous thread. When things go bad, don't look out the window, look in the mirror.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

But what are the brutal facts? Why have we lost so many close games? What is needed to go one better? Collingwood have shown the never say die attitude - what can be instilled into players to have the killer instinct, or, is that something you are born with.

What is the next move for the next two weeks and hopefully finals.

See AP’s great post in the axes thread. Lays out everything in a fair and factual way.

[EasternWest]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

But nooo. The one older brother had to go and screw it all up.

Ha! I understood that reference.

[mjp]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

See AP’s great post in the axes thread. Lays out everything in a fair and factual way.

It is a great post. As I am trying to say here though, the 'close' nature of the games/losses really does throw a few extra jokers into the deck. It's a challenging situation when you are both clearly the best and clearly the worst side on the field every week...

I think everyone would acknowledge though that this game (Hawthorn) followed a different pattern to the other similar close losses.

Vs Sydney, we dominated possession and couldn't score.
Vs GWS we dominated possession and couldn't score (and Toby Greene did the things he does).
Vs Hawthorn they obliterated us around the ball and we couldn't get our hands on it.

I totally get why at the moment you are saying 'hard facts' (I know that's not a direct quote) should = hard decisions...I equally understand people who would say "Geez, we aren't far away...let's work out what lever we need to adjust and we could go all the way".

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

It is a great post. As I am trying to say here though, the 'close' nature of the games/losses really does throw a few extra jokers into the deck. It's a challenging situation when you are both clearly the best and clearly the worst side on the field every week...

I think everyone would acknowledge though that this game (Hawthorn) followed a different pattern to the other similar close losses.

Vs Sydney, we dominated possession and couldn't score.
Vs GWS we dominated possession and couldn't score (and Toby Greene did the things he does).
Vs Hawthorn they obliterated us around the ball and we couldn't get our hands on it.

I totally get why at the moment you are saying 'hard facts' (I know that's not a direct quote) should = hard decisions...I equally understand people who would say "Geez, we aren't far away...let's work out what lever we need to adjust and we could go all the way".

I posted a thread a few weeks back that didn’t get much attention. But it’s the same thing, it’s a Rorshack Test. You can see systemic failure, but I can understand (not agree) that some see somewhat unlucky losses. Personally I see things starting to mount up that something is NQR.

[Mantis]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

It is a great post. As I am trying to say here though, the 'close' nature of the games/losses really does throw a few extra jokers into the deck. It's a challenging situation when you are both clearly the best and clearly the worst side on the field every week...

I think everyone would acknowledge though that this game (Hawthorn) followed a different pattern to the other similar close losses.

Vs Sydney, we dominated possession and couldn't score.
Vs GWS we dominated possession and couldn't score (and Toby Greene did the things he does).
Vs Hawthorn they obliterated us around the ball and we couldn't get our hands on it.

I totally get why at the moment you are saying 'hard facts' (I know that's not a direct quote) should = hard decisions...I equally understand people who would say "Geez, we aren't far away...let's work out what lever we need to adjust and we could go all the way".

For 45min we were statues and it was unacceptable. I can deal with the other losses, but yesterday hit different.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

Condolences on the shingles by the way mjp. It's the worst and can take a long time to recover fully, rest at the start is key though.

I find the prospect of sacking Bevo unpalatable but that is the emotion in me, the part that remembers how he transformed our club, the resilience and tenacity that our team showed in that magical period of 15-16. The persistence of the issues we've had has shaken my faith. This year they have really stolen my joy in footy. It will be hard to go on Sunday. If we win by 100 points, if we scrape in, I still won't trust this team.

If we LOSE...how come it doesn't seem as impossible as it should?

Bevo should not have been re-signed so early. It puts us in that ugly territory that no one wants to be in.

I lament the fact that we botched things at the end of '22. The loss to Freo should have had major flashing lights. Whatever was decided then hasn't worked (what was that exactly?) ... if it's true that we worked on a new game plan over summer and then had to abandon it after round 2, only to replace it with the style that has proven so brittle...that is kinda crazy and points to a coaching group that's lost its way.

[jeemak]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

Sorry to hear you're unwell MJP, and more so given it's shingles which I've heard is a horrible thing to deal with. All the best on your recovery.

[azabob]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

I posted a thread a few weeks back that didn’t get much attention. But it’s the same thing, it’s a Rorshack Test. You can see systemic failure, but I can understand (not agree) that some see somewhat unlucky losses. Personally I see things starting to mount up that something is NQR.

I couldn't engage because I don't know what the Rorshack Test was and looking up the definition confused me even more.

[1eyedog]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

For me it's a moot point. We threw in our lot with Bevo and signed him until 2025 he is absolutely 100% coaching next year.

We cannot afford to pay two coaching salaries for the next two years. We've made our bed.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Everyone is RIGHT.

I'm in the "stick with Bevo but something needs to change" and I assume that the "something" is going to be assistant coaches.

I agree with the premise of the thread though. We're all scratching around to work out why we're not winning, and what changes will change the outcome.

I still think this is the most exciting group of players of seen in R,W&B. I also think that there's the same issues (set shot conversion, going missing for a quarter... for example) that seems to haunt us.