Why are we being killed in the middle?

[comrade]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Why do we let our players dictate where we play them? I've heard English, Dunkley, Smith and Naughton all crack the shits when asked to play different roles. Just suck it up and do what's best for the team.

Yeah, I dunno if it?s because I barely follow the AFL at the moment so have no idea what?s going on with other clubs but it seems our group more than anyone is so conditional with their buy in & commitment. It?s infuriating. Do they think the club ceases to exist without them?

[CarnTheScray]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Still think we should've sent English off and had a crack at bringing in Goldstein or even better Grundy. I've been saying since 2019 that he will never be up to it despite his other attributes, surprised its taken this long for the media to give him a spray.

[CarnTheScray]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

G is right, how do you fit Goldstein in with Lobb and Darcy?
He mightve been a good break glass however i dont think he'd leave Norf for that. His old coach promised him time and that's what he's getting.

The solution would've been to make Naughton CHB (which for some reason is universally impossible and defies all laws of the world) and have one of Darcy and Lobb play forward and the other play forward ruck.

[CarnTheScray]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Our see-ball-get-ball mentality hurts us, and the homogenisation of our centre bounce specialists under Lade means we don't have enough levers to pull when things aren't going our way.

We can all see the strengths our guys bring to the table, but their weaknesses are their weaknesses and Libba, Treloar and Bontempelli aren't going to change the way they play. We need to bring alternatives into the mix, and quickly.

A difference between a good game for Tim and an ordinary game for him is stark. He needs to close the gap and commit to being more physical more often. When he is playing well he is competent as a stoppage ruck (and outstanding at everything else), but even minor lapses in intensity and concentration against his counterparts leave him well exposed due to his physical characteristics. He's not a lump of a man and is easily moved unless he's fully committed to what he's doing.

I'm really concerned about our midfield coaching, and I'm not sure if it's a Bevo and Lade thing, or a Lade thing but on top of a change in personnel a change in coaching needs to take place.

Tim is 27. He won't be changing the way he plays in the ruck.

[Critter]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

My main issues centre around that lack of diversity/ development of alternatives, and the continued doubling down of our win the ball at all costs mentality where there's no sensitivity to what's situationally taking place or a tempering of instinctive attributes in players who can't neutralise outcomes, only deliver polar win-lose extremes.

The two are linked and you can only do what you can with the personnel at your disposal, I guess.

The main change I'd make is bring someone who is quick into the mix and have them play a specific defensive first role, and break up the trio who are incapable of doing that so we're not as exposed as often. There's nothing wrong with asking Cody to be that player when he takes his turns in the middle, like MJP said in another thread, getting Ed involved and asking him to do that mightn't be the worst idea.

Both Treloar and Bont are capable of causing problems when playing forward, so I don't see them giving away minutes as a huge exposure. Libba is Libba and he's going to get a game, so his role is probably the only one that isn't modified to any great extent.

The bolded section above is is a seriously good thought.

In one of the more interesting match sims earlier in the year, players were swung around into new roles. Both Ed and Cody played midfield for the entire match sim and both were very good. Particularly Ed. Time after time, he drove the ball out of centre bounces. He was outstanding.

These are the guys we want in the mix in the middle. They are fast, tough and, best of all, can lay a tackle or close down a contest. Further, they can kick the ball properly - low, long and hard.

Put both of them into the rotation let's get back to winning the ball at source. Cody rotating with Treloar/Bont is a continuation of what is and if Collingwood were able to switch Nick Daicos between midfield and half-back last year, surely we can do the same with Ed.

Tim English is what he is. He plays well around the ground but his distaste for the physical aspects of a contest means, generally, he will be beaten at centre bounces. So, let's build a midfield that doesn't depend upon an armchair ride from a ruckman for us to win centre clearances.

[Topdog]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

We havent replaced Dunkley, our only true two way mid. No one else really wants to do the defensive stuff.

Libba does the defensive stuff too but its too much left to too few

[Grantysghost]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

The solution would've been to make Naughton CHB (which for some reason is universally impossible and defies all laws of the world) and have one of Darcy and Lobb play forward and the other play forward ruck.

You know better (that's how bevo answers that).

[Topdog]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Phil Davis on our midfield mix.

https://x.com/1116sen/status/1778977658334011783

That is an excellent walkthrough by Phil. 1st time I've really listened to him, very impressive.

[ledge]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

I have a thought on Garcia as a replacement for Libba, he seems as hard and in and under as Libba but quicker, also a better kick, this is the perfect time to insert him into Libbas role .
It has to be done for two reasons.
1 Is he up to AFL and 2 Libba hasn’t got long with his knees.
If the game is all about speed we need Garcia in.

[Critter]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

The solution would've been to make Naughton CHB (which for some reason is universally impossible and defies all laws of the world) and have one of Darcy and Lobb play forward and the other play forward ruck.

You will find this solution suggested frequently in past posts on WOOF. Many now complain they are tired of hearing it, thinking it's a broken record. Thing is though, it is by far still the best and most logical solution available to us. It addresses so many issues - back-up in the ruck (Lobb) should English get into difficulty; a place (full forward) and time for Darcy to develop while his body matures; a more effective backline through having a quality tall (Naughton) at CHB.

And if the spirit of adventure becomes infectious, you might even consider moving some stronger, faster bodies (Richards and Weightman) into the midfield rotation to improve our contest at centre bounces.

What we're doing, and how our team lines up isn't working. Let's fix it properly, not tinker at the edges. As Beveridge (and Einstein) said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result". In the words of John Kennedy snr, "DO SOMETHING"!

[CarnTheScray]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

You will find this solution suggested frequently in past posts on WOOF. Many now complain they are tired of hearing it, thinking it's a broken record. Thing is though, it is by far still the best and most logical solution available to us. It addresses so many issues - back-up in the ruck (Lobb) should English get into difficulty; a place (full forward) and time for Darcy to develop while his body matures; a more effective backline through having a quality tall (Naughton) at CHB.

And if the spirit of adventure becomes infectious, you might even consider moving some stronger, faster bodies (Richards and Weightman) into the midfield rotation to improve our contest at centre bounces.

What we're doing, and how our team lines up isn't working. Let's fix it properly, not tinker at the edges. As Beveridge (and Einstein) said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result". In the words of John Kennedy snr, "DO SOMETHING"!

My solution also includes moving English on and recruiting a new ruck. I just don?t think he is up to it. Think he has escaped scrutiny for far too long.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

Why do we let our players dictate where we play them? I've heard English, Dunkley, Smith and Naughton all crack the shits when asked to play different roles. Just suck it up and do what's best for the team.

I don't think they do but there is a bit of a perception out there that says otherwise. Players would have a preference but who knows for sure if that is much of a talking point in contract negotiations.

[GVGjr]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

I have a thought on Garcia as a replacement for Libba, he seems as hard and in and under as Libba but quicker, also a better kick, this is the perfect time to insert him into Libbas role .
It has to be done for two reasons.
1 Is he up to AFL and 2 Libba hasn’t got long with his knees.
If the game is all about speed we need Garcia in.

Back when Weightman and Garcia arrived at the club I had a zoom call with both of them. It was mentioned that the club had recruited Garcia with an eye on him being an understudy to Liberatore. Thursday night would be a good opportunity to see if he has what it takes.

[Critter]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

My solution also includes moving English on and recruiting a new ruck. I just don?t think he is up to it. Think he has escaped scrutiny for far too long.

Fair call.

[azabob]

Re: Why are we being killed in the middle?

That is an excellent walkthrough by Phil. 1st time I've really listened to him, very impressive.

He is impressive and considered.

He was on my wish list when we were restructuring our coaching panel last season.