We could do a lot worse than.....

[Mofra]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

I do get frustrated that kids have to play a month of good games in the reserves to get one crack at the seniors, whilst others get a free ride in the seniors.

Exactly, and Garnt's efforts in his senior game (lack of second leads, not running past the ball carrier after disposal etc.) would clearly be against team rules and he should not be rewarded for that. His lacklustre effort in his first game back for Willy shouldn't be rewarded.

Skipper has been busting a gut, why not give him a go? Surely he could play Hahn's role.

[GVGjr]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

I don't buy this.

Is Cooney match fit at the moment? No
Is Murphy match fit at the moment? No
Is Josh Hill any more physically developed to have the likes of Darren Glass stand on him? No

Eade seems very reluctant to try and play the one kid who could actually add a new dimension to our team and fill a very wide gap.

Cooney has been around the scene a lot more, same as Murphy and they both know how to work there way through injuries. I agree with Japser, we run a bigger risk of not getting Grant through the season if he has an extended run for the Bulldogs. 2 games here and there will do him more good than harm.
Having seen Grant play at least 6 times this year, I know he isn't fit enough.

[BulldogBelle]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Good point. Grant was ignored on various occasions during his debut game, his team mates had numerous opportunities to play him in and didn't.

He cannot do any worse than some of our forwards at the moment, who aren't getting the ball and not chasing to put pressure on. I agree with Sedat that he musn't be used as a bomb long option, but more in the vein of a bob murphy lead up type. His contested marking will come more from side on rather than standing his ground, so popping it on top of his head won't work, not until he fills out anyways.

Was Grant ignored due to his youth, or due to his poor kicking for goal in the NAB Cup games (or even at training)?

Wonder if Lake be ignored up forward due to his poor displays (3-4 set shots in the F50 this year)?

Grant needs time to develop, and wont develop if his is matched up on Scarlett or bigger bodied full backs ie Presti, Merrett etc. If the biggest and badest opposition teams full back gets played on him in the FP he will get smashed (physically), and his confidence will as well.

Best option for Grant is a FP role when a Minson/Skipper/Lake/Hahn is next to him to 'protect' him or play him as a lead up forward on the HFF, where his can use his zip to lead for marks and apply defensive pressure.

[Bornadog]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Will Minson

Not 60% of game time in forward line? So keep guessing.

[MrMahatma]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Was Grant ignored due to his youth, or due to his poor kicking for goal in the NAB Cup games (or even at training)?

Wonder if Lake be ignored up forward due to his poor displays (3-4 set shots in the F50 this year)?

Grant needs time to develop, and wont develop if his is matched up on Scarlett or bigger bodied full backs ie Presti, Merrett etc. If the biggest and badest opposition teams full back gets played on him in the FP he will get smashed (physically), and his confidence will as well.

Best option for Grant is a FP role when a Minson/Skipper/Lake/Hahn is next to him to 'protect' him or play him as a lead up forward on the HFF, where his can use his zip to lead for marks and apply defensive pressure.

I think it's just an excuse. We've had Hill on Glass a few weeks ago. He's playing out of the square as much as anyone currently.

I understand you don't want kids to get hurt, but playing out of the goalsquare is probably one of the 'safest' areas on the ground.

If he's broken team rules, that's another story, but I don't see why we wouldn't be playing Grant & Everritt at every opportunity. It's called fast-tracking them - something we've never done well with talls, if at all.

[Rocket Science]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Whoever's up forward for us there's a fundamental disconnect between our forwards and our mids, with the failings of each unit compounding those of the other.

The mids look increasingly skittish by foot as to who they kick to and in what situations. We're not only struggling horribly for marking targets, but our forward (frontal, dare I say) pressure's been non-existent once the pill hits the deck, and the last thing the mids want to see again is the ball rebounding as quickly as it went in and flying straight back past them again en route to the other end. (It wouldn't hurt if they applied more pressure themselves when not in possession, but it's likewise difficult to defend through the middle against a team on the rebound granted time to use the ball through lack of forward pressure).

It's obvious our mids lack confidence in any of our forwards winning a contest inside forward 50. This naturally causes varying degrees of hesitation/indecision, playing directly into the hands of opponents applying midfield pressure (hello league-leaders in turnovers resulting in goals), and too frequently results in desperate, half-baked or hurried forward-50 entries, playing directly into the hands of rebounding defenders who consistently outnumber and outwork our forwards.

Of course, the more our mids hesitate, the harder it is for our forwards to become and remain open. It's become a vicious cycle which saps the werewithall and confidence (both in themselves and eachother) of both units.

Throw in our currently poor disposal efficiency, the fact that we've lacked our most integral forward cog in Murphy, and general poor form across the board, and the results so far are there for all to see.

A lot of this simply re-emphasizes how vital a fit and firing Cooney and Murphy are to us, particularly against good quality opposition, but it's been something of a shock to see just how much we've floundered in their absence, and what few reliable contingencies we seem to have right now.

[Bornadog]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Whoever's up forward for us there's a fundamental disconnect between our forwards and our mids, with the failings of each unit compounding those of the other.

The mids look increasingly skittish by foot as to who they kick to and in what situations. We're not only struggling horribly for marking targets, but our forward (frontal, dare I say) pressure's been non-existent once the pill hits the deck, and the last thing the mids want to see again is the ball rebounding as quickly as it went in and flying straight back past them again en route to the other end. (It wouldn't hurt if they applied more pressure themselves when not in possession, but it's likewise difficult to defend through the middle against a team on the rebound granted time to use the ball through lack of forward pressure).

It's obvious our mids lack confidence in any of our forwards winning a contest inside forward 50. This naturally causes varying degrees of hesitation/indecision, playing directly into the hands of opponents applying midfield pressure (hello league-leaders in turnovers resulting in goals), and too frequently results in desperate, half-baked or hurried forward-50 entries, playing directly into the hands of rebounding defenders who consistently outnumber and outwork our forwards.

Of course, the more our mids hesitate, the harder it is for our forwards to become and remain open. It's become a vicious cycle which saps the werewithall and confidence (both in themselves and eachother) of both units.

Throw in our currently poor disposal efficiency, the fact that we've lacked our most integral forward cog in Murphy, and general poor form across the board, and the results so far are there for all to see.

A lot of this simply re-emphasizes how vital a fit and firing Cooney and Murphy are to us, particularly against good quality opposition, but it's been something of a shock to see just how much we've floundered in their absence, and what few reliable contingencies we seem to have right now.

Well written RS. I agree a good example of how important Cooney and Murphy are to the team can be seen in our last 7 games of 2008 when both were restricted with injury and were not on fire like when we were undefeated for 15 or so games.

[Mofra]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Not 60% of game time in forward line? So keep guessing.

You don't think in any game in the past 3 years that Will has clocked up 60% or more time in the forwardline? Disagree, Will has had plenty of opportunity as the resting ruckman to make the forwardline his own, especially since Ben Hudson has come to the club.

[LostDoggy]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Whoever's up forward for us there's a fundamental disconnect between our forwards and our mids, with the failings of each unit compounding those of the other.

The mids look increasingly skittish by foot as to who they kick to and in what situations. We're not only struggling horribly for marking targets, but our forward (frontal, dare I say) pressure's been non-existent once the pill hits the deck, and the last thing the mids want to see again is the ball rebounding as quickly as it went in and flying straight back past them again en route to the other end. (It wouldn't hurt if they applied more pressure themselves when not in possession, but it's likewise difficult to defend through the middle against a team on the rebound granted time to use the ball through lack of forward pressure).

It's obvious our mids lack confidence in any of our forwards winning a contest inside forward 50. This naturally causes varying degrees of hesitation/indecision, playing directly into the hands of opponents applying midfield pressure (hello league-leaders in turnovers resulting in goals), and too frequently results in desperate, half-baked or hurried forward-50 entries, playing directly into the hands of rebounding defenders who consistently outnumber and outwork our forwards.

Of course, the more our mids hesitate, the harder it is for our forwards to become and remain open. It's become a vicious cycle which saps the werewithall and confidence (both in themselves and eachother) of both units.

Throw in our currently poor disposal efficiency, the fact that we've lacked our most integral forward cog in Murphy, and general poor form across the board, and the results so far are there for all to see.

A lot of this simply re-emphasizes how vital a fit and firing Cooney and Murphy are to us, particularly against good quality opposition, but it's been something of a shock to see just how much we've floundered in their absence, and what few reliable contingencies we seem to have right now.

We are carrying too many passengers into aour games ATM and while we are tyring to play Coons and Murph back into some form it's important that the other guys on the park are throwing everything they have at the contest.

This is not happening, our guys are shit scared at taking risks and as a result a fair few of them have completely lost their way and need to either ship right up or make way for some younger guys who are gonna chase, tackle and at least create some pressure. pressure creates turnovers, turnovers creats opportunities!!

[LostDoggy]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Jarryd's namesake was thrown into the deep end as a 17 year old and whilst the analogy isn't quite the same - the only way you find out if a player can handle it is by giving them a stretch of games.

[Mofra]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Jarryd's namesake was thrown into the deep end as a 17 year old and whilst the analogy isn't quite the same - the only way you find out if a player can handle it is by giving them a stretch of games.

Chris Grant had form on the board during the pre-season, and prefformed at senior level. Jarrad simply didn't perform at senior level, and dropped his head very quickly, second efforts weren;t up to scratch, etc.

Eade said a while back that he isn't going to play a tall for the sake of going tall, they must be able to add something to the team. I agree with him.

[Bornadog]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

You don't think in any game in the past 3 years that Will has clocked up 60% or more time in the forwardline? Disagree, Will has had plenty of opportunity as the resting ruckman to make the forwardline his own, especially since Ben Hudson has come to the club.

Ok, I am not going to argue here about Will as I can't prove it, its just a perception.

My initial point is that we don't seem to take a risk and keep a young tall in the goal square for a whole game for many weeks and give the kid a go.

[LostDoggy]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

Chris Grant had form on the board during the pre-season, and prefformed at senior level. Jarrad simply didn't perform at senior level, and dropped his head very quickly, second efforts weren;t up to scratch, etc.

Eade said a while back that he isn't going to play a tall for the sake of going tall, they must be able to add something to the team. I agree with him.

He is a top 5 pick, at some stage we have to bite the bullet with this kid and back our decision to take him so highly.

We played Cal Ward for a string of consecutive games, he did not set the world on fire, but I can guarantee you that the experience of playing league footy will triple the speed of his development than if he just stayed at Willy.

Eade made the decision to bite the bullet and play him, so he must be dedicated to giving him more than one game every 6 weeks, that serves the kid and the club no purpose.

Cause I can tell you this, I would rather a bloke drop the mark, put his head down his ass up and chase the house down to create some pressure, than someone who expects pin point service and is not willing to work hard the other way.

Grant will make mistakes and he will miss shots, but the only way to breed that confidence back into him is for his team mates to play him in at every realistic opportunity, help him believe that he belongs. Give him a watershed game rather than him having to feel like he has to search for every possesion, this will only create more pressure on the kid.

[Missing Dog]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

The big difference here is that C Grant was a superstar and was only given a game as A Cambell and P O'Keefe were both injured Chris played in round 1 and from memory kicked 5 which kept in the side for most of the year! we needa little perspective here people let the boy develop but don't throw him to the wolves too early

[Mofra]

Re: We could do a lot worse than.....

He is a top 5 pick, at some stage we have to bite the bullet with this kid and back our decision to take him so highly.

Cause I can tell you this, I would rather a bloke drop the mark, put his head down his ass up and chase the house down to create some pressure, than someone who expects pin point service and is not willing to work hard the other way.

So what is your proposal? As much as he is viewed through rose coloured glasses, Grant was not very good in his debut, and his lack of effort in the second half could not have been rewarded with another game, whilst 21 other blokes were putting in more effort.

He is simply not fit enough nor developed enough to make an impact at AFL level yet, and will need time to get both his body & his head right. I'd hate to think we would have cut Peter Foster at 19,20 or 21 years of age because he wasn't a star yet. Patience is a virtue.