Barry Hall

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Barry Hall

LMAO I guess everyone can have an opinion. So does Hall have any positive quality? Had a pretty good career for such a dud huh?

Some are saying don't get too romantic, I think a lot are letting their hatred towards Hall get in the way.

Yes. He WAS an excellent lead up straight kicking forward. And he was excellent at punching people who weren't looking at him.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Barry Hall

Yes. He WAS an excellent lead up straight kicking forward. And he was excellent at punching people who weren't looking at him.

OK.

So say we do what we did last year and struggle to kick a goal when it matters. Still no interest?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Barry Hall

Is that what happened when Sydney won the flag? Barry Hall has been horribly disciplined when it comes to knocking people out this week but he isn't your Fev type FF who demands the ball at the cost of the team. He has played alongside two high quality forward targets in ROK and Micky O for the majority of his career.

Using that logic, would you want Pav, Brown or Riewoldt? Would you want Ayce or Grant to develop into a gun KP forward?




Last year he had averaged the highest amount of contested marks per game and this year he is in the top ten for total contested marks in the league despite missing a few games. I think never been a strong contested mark is an extremely odd call to say the very least.

We kicked a lot of goals last year. It really helped us in the PF. You can ask Matthew Scarlett how highly he rates our forward line.

we have developed over many years a game plan which is based around small, highly skilled forwards on high rotation. Multiple avenues to goal and players who are capable of kicking a bag one week and then playing in defense the next week.
This doesn't just happen accidentally or overnight.
If you drop Barry Hall into that set up, it may disrupt it, and ultimately MAY be detrimental to the balance of the team and the game plan.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Barry Hall

LMAO I guess everyone can have an opinion. So does Hall have any positive quality? Had a pretty good career for such a dud huh?

Despite what all the stats say, I watch the game and think Chris Judd is a rubbish midfielder!

Some are saying don't get too romantic, I think a lot are letting their hatred towards Hall get in the way.

I have noticed that people who generally use this post aren't trapped by the devotion to 'stats' that the average bozo is. Barry Hall is not a great contested mark in the mould of Riewoldt or Richo. Maybe a Sydney statistician is doing the numbers.
Maybe there was someone standing close enough to him often enough to push his Contested marks rating up. Not very hard at the SCG.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Barry Hall

we have developed over many years a game plan which is based around small, highly skilled forwards on high rotation. Multiple avenues to goal and players who are capable of kicking a bag one week and then playing in defense the next week.
This doesn't just happen accidentally or overnight.
If you drop Barry Hall into that set up, it may disrupt it, and ultimately MAY be detrimental to the balance of the team and the game plan.

Yep I agree and ironically enough I have been on the small forward lines can win flags side of arguments for so long. I definitely believe you don't have to have a KP forward to win a flag.

A factor I really rate is that Hall was part of a multiple avenues to goal forward line at Swans. While he has been very selfish in the obvious manner, he isn't the type of KP who dominates a forward line.

Last year we struggled to kick goals against the Cats in the PF despite playing well. I am not so sure our forward line will be as effectively against the Cats and Saints.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Barry Hall

I have noticed that people who generally use this post aren't trapped by the devotion to 'stats' that the average bozo is. Barry Hall is not a great contested mark in the mould of Riewoldt or Richo. Maybe a Sydney statistician is doing the numbers.
Maybe there was someone standing close enough to him often enough to push his Contested marks rating up. Not very hard at the SCG.

I definitely think Hall's contested mark ability is at least strong enough to be a quality KP forward. Is "great" your benchmark for being worth the last spot on a list?

[Missing Dog]

Re: Barry Hall

we have developed over many years a game plan which is based around small, highly skilled forwards on high rotation. Multiple avenues to goal and players who are capable of kicking a bag one week and then playing in defense the next week.
This doesn't just happen accidentally or overnight.
If you drop Barry Hall into that set up, it may disrupt it, and ultimately MAY be detrimental to the balance of the team and the game plan.

Thats my main concern. In effect we end up being too focused on Hall and ignore the other forward options. At the moment our mids look for a forward, any forward, because they know that any one of12 players can play there and can be goal kickers, there's no preference who they kick to.

What do we expect the tangible result of having Hall in the side to be? He might kick 3-4 goals, but take 3-4 goals off the other forwards.

I think as a rule if you kick more than 100 points, you'll win the game. We have the players to do that. Look at St Kilda: Kozzie and Reiwoldt, two tall KPF at least as good as Hall but they have scored less than us. Kicking goals are not the problem- only Geelong has scored more than us, 10 points at that. But of the top 5 sides we have conceded more than anyone, 400 points more than St Kilda. IMHO we lack a key position defender, not a KPF.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Barry Hall

we have developed over many years a game plan which is based around small, highly skilled forwards on high rotation. Multiple avenues to goal and players who are capable of kicking a bag one week and then playing in defense the next week.
This doesn't just happen accidentally or overnight.
If you drop Barry Hall into that set up, it may disrupt it, and ultimately MAY be detrimental to the balance of the team and the game plan.

Quick Rocco, gave Bomber a call and tell them to drop Mooney and Hawkins/Gamble and don't worry about bringing Ottens back. Because a very talented midfield that kicks goals wont win Grand Finals. That must explain why Geelong lost last year.

Wait a second, how tall is Buddy and Roughy again?

If your mids can kick goals, then let them kick goals like Ablet and co do. Like Cooney and co do.

I'm sorry that is the worst argument i've just about seen - dropping a tall KPP might unbalance the team because it is based around the rotaton on small highly skilled players.

Rocco, after you finish with Bomber, call me, Fantasia and Eade - it's time for a conference call. I fear Cordy, Grant, Jones and Roughy are going to bring this club to it's knees by unbalancing the side. Perhaps we can get Jordy back, it's never too late!!!!

And then i'll call the AFL and Calder Cannons and say we don't want those two potential first round picks in two years, because we don't want the ability to have depth so we can top up a year or two early with a tall like Ottens or Dew - Those tall goal kicking tall guys wouldn't take a contender to premier....


I mean say no, say he's an idiot, he can't be trusted. But we've got some very bright f/s selections to buffer us in 18 months, which means we can afford to retire Welsh and replace him with another forward. And still have three picks. And if Aker and/or Lynch go, we may have 5 picks. 3 of our rookie's time is up too. So we could move up to 9 players with Hall included.

Our window for a premiership is now. Hall has one perhaps two years left. He can then leave, take up boxing and then Grant, Cordy and Jones can take over with the benefit of him always taking the best defender.

Like it or not, i firmly beleive like Rocco, Barry Hall kicking for goal in last years PF in lieu of Wilbur might have been the difference in playing in the GF. That's not Wilbur's fault, well he did miss twice at crucial times.

Again, what is the worst thing that could happen by giving him Welsh's spot when he retires at years end?

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Barry Hall

Rocco. In a nutshell, YES.
What about the whole other point I'm trying to raise about him possibly upsetting the balance of our game plan? Do you think there's absolutely no validity to that concern?

I remember the Crows trading for Wayne Carey because they thought they were close to a flag.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Barry Hall

Quick Rocco, gave Bomber a call and tell them to drop Mooney and Hawkins/Gamble and don't worry about bringing Ottens back. Because a very talented midfield that kicks goals wont win Grand Finals. That must explain why Geelong lost last year.

Wait a second, how tall is Buddy and Roughy again?

If your mids can kick goals, then let them kick goals like Ablet and co do. Like Cooney and co do.

I'm sorry that is the worst argument i've just about seen - dropping a tall KPP might unbalance the team because it is based around the rotaton on small highly skilled players.

Rocco, after you finish with Bomber, call me, Fantasia and Eade - it's time for a conference call. I fear Cordy, Grant, Jones and Roughy are going to bring this club to it's knees by unbalancing the side. Perhaps we can get Jordy back, it's never too late!!!!

And then i'll call the AFL and Calder Cannons and say we don't want those two potential first round picks in two years, because we don't want the ability to have depth so we can top up a year or two early with a tall like Ottens or Dew - Those tall goal kicking tall guys wouldn't take a contender to premier....


I mean say no, say he's an idiot, he can't be trusted. But we've got some very bright f/s selections to buffer us in 18 months, which means we can afford to retire Welsh and replace him with another forward. And still have three picks. And if Aker and/or Lynch go, we may have 5 picks. 3 of our rookie's time is up too. So we could move up to 9 players with Hall included.

Our window for a premiership is now. Hall has one perhaps two years left. He can then leave, take up boxing and then Grant, Cordy and Jones can take over with the benefit of him always taking the best defender.

Like it or not, i firmly beleive like Rocco, Barry Hall kicking for goal in last years PF in lieu of Wilbur might have been the difference in playing in the GF. That's not Wilbur's fault, well he did miss twice at crucial times.

Again, what is the worst thing that could happen by giving him Welsh's spot when he retires at years end?

Crows. Carey

[Mofra]

Re: Barry Hall

Will our mid fielders start ignoring all the other leads because big bad Barry Hall is screaming for the ball?
Will all our small forwards stop leading and start trying to crumb off him?
Will we be easier to stop?

We are a much better forward line now we share it around - if you remember, we used to be very Johnno focussed. I doubt we'd go back to being so focussed on a single forward, considering we broke the mold.

Do people really think Hall will destroy our forwardline structure?

BUT WE KICK ENOUGH GOALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In H&A yes, however you might want to check our finals averages over our recent history.

You can talk about having a "presence" in the forward line or a "tall target as an option".
But that might just make the midfielders lazy.
"bomb it long to Hall" mentality may sink in.
Plenty of teams with talented big key forwards have languished in mediocrity for years. Look at Richo and Fev.

So Richmond & Carlton have midfields as skilled as ours, they're just "lazy"?

You honestly think Conney/Griffen/Higgo will be streaming through the middle, and think "stuff a direct pass, I can't be bothered, I'll just bomb it to the square"?

You do realise we are detsroying the assist stats this year right? Precision passing doesn't dissipate due to "laziness".

I'll say another thing about Hall. He's never been a strong contested mark. Despite his reputation he's never been a Richo or a Carey outmarking mobs of defenders.
He's pretty much a lead up and kick straight type.

Our forwards generally are. So a forward that plays to our strengths will somehow completely destroy our structure? Maybe we should trade Grant & Cordy now, as they will lead as forwards too. Heaven forbid.

And he's not a finals performer. His last grand final was disgraceful. Almost unforgiveable and I reckon it was the start of his slide into frustration and rage. His hands were like concrete, perhaps a glimpse of his future use of them.
No Hall.

I believe his GF performance the year before was a bit better than average.

Why are people so anti-tall forward?

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Barry Hall

It is an interesting conundrum.

Would Hall improve our side /

Would his presence help or hinder Grant/Cordy/Roughead/Jones/Boumann and their ultimate development.

I am not equipped to have an opinion, but I would trust that Rocket is best placed to assess what Barry could bring and would also understand how he may help/limit the progress of the younger brigade.

There is no doubt that Hall has a presence that keeps opposition on their toes, but issue that needs to be addressed is how he can fit into the list. My understanding is that we need to create a minimum of 3 spots for draftees. I would not like Hall to take one of those as we already have a significant number of players who will be 28 or older in 2010 unless we get some retirements.

Could we trade for Cam Wight, who has certainly stagnated but is capable of playing senior footy and probably needs a new environment. Cam is hardly more error prone than Ted Richards. Sydney will not drive a hard bargain as he is lost to them regardless. It is then just finding a player they would accept that we are prepared to give up, if Fantasia and Eade decide to give Barry a chance.

A contract for Hall could only be minimum standard with performance payments and a termination clause if he misbehaves.

Would Mitch Hahn be too much to trade ?

[Mofra]

Re: Barry Hall

Could we trade for Cam Wight, who has certainly stagnated but is capable of playing senior footy and probably needs a new environment.

If Cam Wight was on the Sydney list, would you trade for him?

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Barry Hall

Why are people so anti-tall forward?

I think because Bulldogs fans have had to defend not having a tall forward for so long that they see wanting one as selling out.

I both think that we can win a flag without one AND that one would help us.

If our forward line structure goes to water just because we are added a KP forward to it I would hate to see what happens when it comes up against a high quality backline. If it all falls apart because we add a forward KP than it was never that strong to start off with.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Barry Hall

Sorry, that is the worst argument i've seen, now. Carey rooted his best man wife in a toilet with his team mates around was out for basicly an entire year. With a back injury too.

If the litmus test is being out of the game for 1/3 of a year, Akermanis did it a few years and has won about 10 games for us off his own boot.

So by that logic if we get Barry, he will win us 10 games in the next two years.

Yeah, i love your logic, it proves the theory:

barry + bulldogs = 10 more wins.

Mate, i have no issue with opposing viewpoints but some of this shit your typing is just that, shit.

And as for the Crows, taking Carey is effecting their tilt at a premiership this year or their performances prior. What did recruiting Wayne Carey do to Adelaide that was so bad, we need to learn from their mistake???

We learnt Akermanis can leave a club at this point in the season and perform well in the next two.

So what the hell do the crows regret?