Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

[Rocco Jones]

I was going to post this in the round 3 ins and outs thread but thought it warranted it's own thread as it's about our structure for the rest of the season.

There has already been a fair bit of discussion about Roughead possibly replacing Minson in the side but do any of you want us to go in with a part timer instead to give our side greater flexibility/mobility?

Last week we went in at least one midfielder short and bringing back Johnno (whenever that is) will cause some structural dilemmas.

Will is struggling and as a 2nd ruckman I really believe he lacks that extra string to his bow, he is just making up numbers playing forward. Having him out of the side would give us greater flexibility to play someone like Johnno or Hahn without having to sacrifice running depth.

I haven't got TOG stats handy but I believe Hudson's would be about 70%. He doesn't have the fitness that some other ruckmen have, so a draw back to the tactic would be the added time. Still though, is saying 30% (bit more than a quarter) really worth playing another pure ruckman?

Obviously another issue is who we would use as the part timer. Dre seems the obvious candidate to me but he has finally found some form down back and disrupting that has a risk.

Would love to read a few thoughts.

[SonofScray]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

I think you are underselling Will a bit to be honest. The combination of Huddo and Will is where our rucking strength is, they're not individually elite talls but together form a very solid working class ruck division. Both scrap hard in close, they do the hard yards where needed and can provide effective taps to the midfield.

Huddo is better at winning his own ball in close, Minson has days where he is valuable around the ground and is a bit better up forward. There just seems to be a good balance there, it isn't perfect but I think if you change it up right now we fall away a lot more than most would anticipate. On form you'd have to say Will needs to come under some scrutiny, fitness wise he is battling a lot; so something has to give at some stage.

I wouldn't want Everitt filling the role, he needs times to get his own game going. Would not be in our interests to make him a bit parts man when he potentially could be an elite KP at best, or a handy flanker at least.

I wouldn't ask more of Huddo, he has slipped a bit here and there when his body isn't quite right, I'm think late 2008 is a good example. Can't put him under more pressure to play more good minutes, and liewise we don't want to ask too much of a "fill" in ruck.

Form pending, you'd give Roughy a chance at some stage, pray Ayce is actually any good and hope Huddo doesn't get injured.

[Dry Rot]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

The hypothetical is interesting - who are the candidates?

Aside from Dre, I suppose purely going on height there's Williams, Lake and Hall but I don't know we'd want to risk them in the ruck, nor would they have the skills.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

I don't think our candidates are great, I personally just don't rate playing 2 pure ruckmen who struggle elsewhere on the field.

I believe a big factor in the amount of time we will actually need them to cover in the ruck.

[Sedat]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

I was going to post this in the round 3 ins and outs thread but thought it warranted it's own thread as it's about our structure for the rest of the season.

There has already been a fair bit of discussion about Roughead possibly replacing Minson in the side but do any of you want us to go in with a part timer instead to give our side greater flexibility/mobility?

Last week we went in at least one midfielder short and bringing back Johnno (whenever that is) will cause some structural dilemmas.

Will is struggling and as a 2nd ruckman I really believe he lacks that extra string to his bow, he is just making up numbers playing forward. Having him out of the side would give us greater flexibility to play someone like Johnno or Hahn without having to sacrifice running depth.

I haven't got TOG stats handy but I believe Hudson's would be about 70%. He doesn't have the fitness that some other ruckmen have, so a draw back to the tactic would be the added time. Still though, is saying 30% (bit more than a quarter) really worth playing another pure ruckman?

Obviously another issue is who we would use as the part timer. Dre seems the obvious candidate to me but he has finally found some form down back and disrupting that has a risk.

Would love to read a few thoughts.

I reckon Huddo needs the bash and crash of Will to help wear the opposition ruckmen down. He was completely spent late in 2008 and his repeat efforts after the stoppage dried up considerably that September. I'm confident that Will will find some touch before too long and will become a valuable part of the starting 22. Hudson is a vitally important ingredient in our structure and needs to be protected for as long during the season as possible. Worth noting that we were a bottom 2 team in the competition for clearances and contested possessions prior to Huddo's arrival and we are have been ranked in the top 2-3 for both stats since Huddo came to the club.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

I reckon Huddo needs the bash and crash of Will to help wear the opposition ruckmen down. He was completely spent late in 2008 and his repeat efforts after the stoppage dried up considerably that September. I'm confident that Will will find some touch before too long and will become a valuable part of the starting 22. Hudson is a vitally important ingredient in our structure and needs to be protected for as long during the season as possible. Worth noting that we were a bottom 2 team in the competition for clearances and contested possessions prior to Huddo's arrival and we are have been ranked in the top 2-3 for both stats since Huddo came to the club.

Yep, definitely value the role Hudson plays and think he needs some protection. Occasionally resting Hudson and having a horses for courses 2 ruck/1 ruck + part timers are possible options. My issues are less about Minson and more about having 2 out and out rucks in a side struggling to fit in midfielders/runners.

[boydogs]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

Nice thread. I've always thought Everitt was an attacking player like a Goodes or Embley, and this would give us a good excuse to move him out of defense and play him on the ball instead. I reckon the coaching staff are thinking the same thing, as it is only really Cordy behind Hudson, Minson and Roughead on the list at the moment as a genuine ruck option.

Will's poor pre-season is translating into poor early form, and Everitt resting forward while Hudson is rucking looks more attractive now that we have Hall to crash the packs and create a contest, which Will was doing previously.

I would be happy to put this into place when Ward or Eagle are ready to come back in, to save dropping Moles or Picken

[Sedat]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

My issues are less about Minson and more about having 2 out and out rucks in a side struggling to fit in midfielders/runners.

I don't think Minson is the problem - it is more about the 5-6 attacking mid-sized forwards who are all inconsistent in their defensive pressure when they don't have the ball. For mine, Higgins is the one from this group that needs to be released into the middle on a more permanent basis - he was a top-shelf midfielder at U-18 level and has developed some bad habits playing as an almost permament half forward throughout his career thus far. Sucessfully release him into our midfield on a more consistent basis and it starts to provide a more balanced overall structure with regard to mids and forwards.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

This might be a little off topic, but could Will move to the back line and become a defender and when Roughy is ready becomes our forward ruck option.

This thought come to me will reading this thread, Will hasn't had great success forward and as has been mentioned that BBB crashes the packs so maybe a change of style might be something will needs.

It also gives us a big bodied tall defender and maybe release Tom up forward.

[chef]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

I don't like the idea.

What happens if the number 1 gets injured during the match?

People need to remember that Big Will didn't have a very solid preseason so it is going to take him a few games to get going. A full game or two at Williamstown might be good for him to blow out the cobwebs and give Roughead a taste IMO.

[chef]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

This might be a little off topic, but could Will move to the back line and become a defender and when Roughy is ready becomes our forward ruck option.

This thought come to me will reading this thread, Will hasn't had great success forward and as has been mentioned that BBB crashes the packs so maybe a change of style might be something will needs.

It also gives us a big bodied tall defender and maybe release Tom up forward.

He would get cut to piece's in the backline. He is not agile or quick enough.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

He would get cut to piece's in the backline. He is not agile or quick enough.

Fair enough! poor Will was copping a bagging and I was looking for other options.

I like Will although he can do some really silly things, he's big and aggressive and that can be a good thing. I thought he did play well after half time.

[chef]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

Fair enough! poor Will was copping a bagging and I was looking for other options.

I like Will although he can do some really silly things, he's big and aggressive and that can be a good thing. I thought he did play well after half time.

He did, he's going to take some time to find form after a compromised preseason.

[GVGjr]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

Obviously another issue is who we would use as the part timer. Dre seems the obvious candidate to me but he has finally found some form down back and disrupting that has a risk.

Would love to read a few thoughts.

Everitt is the logical candidate but we haven't got as lot of options in that regard. Mulligan might be an option but he seems to be a long way off as a player from being able to come into the seniors on even a semi regular basis.

What about Cross? Strong mark for his size and very competitive.

[Mofra]

Re: Using a part timer as our 2nd ruckman

I don't think our candidates are great, I personally just don't rate playing 2 pure ruckmen who struggle elsewhere on the field.

It is an interesting point to raise - but does it solve itself after 2010 anyway?

Roughead already looks better up forward than Will does, and our other developing ruckman (Cordy) spent most of last year playing forward to the degree that some (myself included) have wondered whether he will become a forward who pinch hits in the ruck instead.

I guess the other two options we have don't inspire me with their flexibility - Prato is learning the game as is Mulligan who seems to be on the backman's development path anyway.