Young blokes to take us forward

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

This post shows just how precious players that have represented our club are/ have become. (Not directed at you Mofra because I have heard the same thing)

A coach trades away a player who he feels isn't going to take the club forward, which is his job... improve the team and take them forward and the players have a sook because they have lost a mate... HTFU boys.

I'd HTFU all the way to whoever gives me the best deal.

Are we a footy CLUB or a business enterprise?

If we're a business enterprise with no heart, as a player, I'll work for whoever pays me the most (just like the rest of us out here earning a crust). I'll have no passion for the jumper and I'll certainly never risk getting or playing hurt (can't risk my future earning ability). Once my playing days are over you'll never see me at the place again (unless you pay) and don't use my image to market your company because it's my IP.

If we a business enterprise with no heart, as a supporter, I won't bother parting with my hard-earned cash for a membership to one organisation. If I want to be entertained by footballers 'll go to the best or most convenient game depending on the weather.

Our club does have a heart and we all care enormously about it and expect that the players do to.

Reality is that there comes a time when players need to be moved on, we just have to make sure we show the players enough respect at that time that those still playing want to give doing it for the club.

Giving a bloke the lemonade and sars before it's time because you got a better offer is the quickest way to destroy that passion for the club.

[Mofra]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

This post shows just how precious players that have represented our club are/ have become. (Not directed at you Mofra because I have heard the same thing)

A coach trades away a player who he feels isn't going to take the club forward, which is his job... improve the team and take them forward and the players have a sook because they have lost a mate... HTFU boys.

Given he was Chris Grant's best mate, I can understand the angst of the playing group. In any schism, the players would have always taken Grant's side in this scenario.

One of the 9 principles of leadership (from my military days) was "morale is a force multiplier", and whilst just making the players happy isn't the sole reason to keep a player, the dynamic of the playing group should be a consideration when trading. The best player in the world wont be as effective if he's not a good cultural fit for the club.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

I think that's being a bit generous to Stack. He's still spent plenty of time in the system, and hasn't missed entire seasons due injury.

Hill is younger and lighter but is a fair way ahead of him, Everitt is a young tall, is younger and ahead of him, Grant is younger, taller, and has spent less time in the system and has had injury interrupted seasons in his past three years but is miles ahead.

Even DFA who is a similar age and has obvious limitations is ahead of Stack. I'm worried.

I agree. Stack shouldn't get any better treatment cause of thennumher of AFL games he's played. It's taken him 4 years to get in the team because he hasn't been good enough at VFL level. Now he's in the team it's clear he's not up to AFL level.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

I'd HTFU all the way to whoever gives me the best deal.

Are we a footy CLUB or a business enterprise?

If we're a business enterprise with no heart, as a player, I'll work for whoever pays me the most (just like the rest of us out here earning a crust). I'll have no passion for the jumper and I'll certainly never risk getting or playing hurt (can't risk my future earning ability). Once my playing days are over you'll never see me at the place again (unless you pay) and don't use my image to market your company because it's my IP.

If we a business enterprise with no heart, as a supporter, I won't bother parting with my hard-earned cash for a membership to one organisation. If I want to be entertained by footballers 'll go to the best or most convenient game depending on the weather.

Our club does have a heart and we all care enormously about it and expect that the players do to.

Reality is that there comes a time when players need to be moved on, we just have to make sure we show the players enough respect at that time that those still playing want to give doing it for the club.

Giving a bloke the lemonade and sars before it's time because you got a better offer is the quickest way to destroy that passion for the club.

^^ This.

If there wasn't a salary cap, and we were a rich club, we could do whatever we like. But there IS a salary cap, and we struggle to keep our stars as it is, the last thing we need is to breed a 'pragmatic' mentality with our playing group -- if it is clear that we don't give a crap about them, why would Coons or Griff not just take the money and move to the GC? You may as well when the only value is financial/tangible.

Israel Folou told GWS to f.o. when they suggested that he not go play Rugby Union in Europe before coming back for the 2012 AFL season. They couldn't compete with the money he was being offered, so they took it up the you-know-where instead of insisting that he spend the season actually learning how to play the sport and getting to know his future teammates. This is the kind of 'team' mentality you get when it all becomes about the dollars.

[Mantis]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

I'd HTFU all the way to whoever gives me the best deal.

Are we a footy CLUB or a business enterprise?

If we're a business enterprise with no heart, as a player, I'll work for whoever pays me the most (just like the rest of us out here earning a crust). I'll have no passion for the jumper and I'll certainly never risk getting or playing hurt (can't risk my future earning ability). Once my playing days are over you'll never see me at the place again (unless you pay) and don't use my image to market your company because it's my IP.

If we a business enterprise with no heart, as a supporter, I won't bother parting with my hard-earned cash for a membership to one organisation. If I want to be entertained by footballers 'll go to the best or most convenient game depending on the weather.

Our club does have a heart and we all care enormously about it and expect that the players do to.

Reality is that there comes a time when players need to be moved on, we just have to make sure we show the players enough respect at that time that those still playing want to give doing it for the club.

Giving a bloke the lemonade and sars before it's time because you got a better offer is the quickest way to destroy that passion for the club.

While I do agree with many parts of that SS, my line of thinking is that we should be exhausting all idea's in our pursuit of a premiership and long term on-field success. I agree that the club needs to stay true to it's core values and trading players is the 'work of the devil' I still believe that if we need to make a call on an existing and well liked player for the benefit of our short & long terms plans and aspirations I wouldn't let emotions cloud such a decision.

Using an example of Cross (for no reason other than that his name was mentioned earlier), say come the end of the year we are still not premiers (and maybe further away than last year) and believe that although he is a 'heart and soul' type and would bleed for the jumper can he give anymore or take us any further? Perhaps we believe Reid or Ward could play a similiar role and perhaps add a little more do we look at offering up Cross such that we could add a different type of player or a high draft pick to our list which could help us now or in future years?

Look what I have posted is a hypothetical and hopefully soemthing we will not have to even think about, but 'I' am happy to contemplate such an idea, you and others may not and that's fine.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

While I do agree with many parts of that SS, my line of thinking is that we should be exhausting all idea's in our pursuit of a premiership and long term on-field success. I agree that the club needs to stay true to it's core values and trading players is the 'work of the devil' I still believe that if we need to make a call on an existing and well liked player for the benefit of our short & long terms plans and aspirations I wouldn't let emotions cloud such a decision.

Using an example of Cross (for no reason other than that his name was mentioned earlier), say come the end of the year we are still not premiers (and maybe further away than last year) and believe that although he is a 'heart and soul' type and would bleed for the jumper can he give anymore or take us any further? Perhaps we believe Reid or Ward could play a similiar role and perhaps add a little more do we look at offering up Cross such that we could add a different type of player or a high draft pick to our list which could help us now or in future years?

Look what I have posted is a hypothetical and hopefully soemthing we will not have to even think about, but 'I' am happy to contemplate such an idea, you and others may not and that's fine.

Balancing that 'heart and soul' with doing everything that it takes is a difficult tightrope - and its one we expect the leaders of the footy club to walk.

Now I know it was a hypothetical and I've posted on it before, but I have never thought we would get a high enough pick for Cross to justify the loss of 'heart and soul'. I just think we'd be offered a second/third round pick and I dont see that as worth it.

For me there are not that many guys on AFL lists that genuinely will do everything they can to get better, and Cross does. A lot of blokes pay lip service to it, but Cross does it through action.

I've seen nothing from our last two drafts to suggest many of them are anywhere near as committed as I'd like them to be but thats an entirely different issue.

[Desipura]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

I've seen nothing from our last two drafts to suggest many of them are anywhere near as committed as I'd like them to be but thats an entirely different issue.

I beg to differ, Roughead & Jones look like they will be very good long term players

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

While I do agree with many parts of that SS, my line of thinking is that we should be exhausting all idea's in our pursuit of a premiership and long term on-field success. I agree that the club needs to stay true to it's core values and trading players is the 'work of the devil' I still believe that if we need to make a call on an existing and well liked player for the benefit of our short & long terms plans and aspirations I wouldn't let emotions cloud such a decision.

Using an example of Cross (for no reason other than that his name was mentioned earlier), say come the end of the year we are still not premiers (and maybe further away than last year) and believe that although he is a 'heart and soul' type and would bleed for the jumper can he give anymore or take us any further? Perhaps we believe Reid or Ward could play a similiar role and perhaps add a little more do we look at offering up Cross such that we could add a different type of player or a high draft pick to our list which could help us now or in future years?

Look what I have posted is a hypothetical and hopefully soemthing we will not have to even think about, but 'I' am happy to contemplate such an idea, you and others may not and that's fine.

There's a difference between offloading someone and letting them know that their opportunities were going to be limited.

If we were to decide Reid was a better bet in Cross' role and we couldn't play both we tell Cross that this is the situation. Then if he decides to go somewhere else for the sake of his career you try to help him all you can to get where he wants.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

There's a difference between offloading someone and letting them know that their opportunities were going to be limited.

If we were to decide Reid was a better bet in Cross' role and we couldn't play both we tell Cross that this is the situation. Then if he decides to go somewhere else for the sake of his career you try to help him all you can to get where he wants.

Devil's advocate question

So we've told Cross (or player X) that his opportunities maybe limited and he won't be guaranteed a senior game next year - he then chooses to fight for his football future with the club.

Then club Y has a player that would be a short term solution for a hole in our list (and I'm thinking specifically a zippy forward) and would be open to the idea of a direct swap with player X - wouldn't the need of the group overule the want of the player to fight it out at his original club?

Great dicsussion too BTW guys

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

Devil's advocate question

So we've told Cross (or player X) that his opportunities maybe limited and he won't be guaranteed a senior game next year - he then chooses to fight for his football future with the club.

Then club Y has a player that would be a short term solution for a hole in our list (and I'm thinking specifically a zippy forward) and would be open to the idea of a direct swap with player X - wouldn't the need of the group overule the want of the player to fight it out at his original club?

Great dicsussion too BTW guys

Firstly, AFL rules say no-one can be traded against their will, so if he wants to stay, he stays (unless he is delisted).

You can tell him Reid is going to be preferred, but if you don't want to delist him and he doesn't want to go, he stays.

I'm not a big wrap for trading blokes in either unless you can pick them up at a bargain basement price (Hudson, Akermanis, Hall) or they are young and not getting a go where they are. Prising someone away from where he is wanted and happy costs a fortune and unless you have salary cap exceptions is fraught with danger.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Young blokes to take us forward

Firstly, AFL rules say no-one can be traded against their will, so if he wants to stay, he stays (unless he is delisted).

You can tell him Reid is going to be preferred, but if you don't want to delist him and he doesn't want to go, he stays.

I'm not a big wrap for trading blokes in either unless you can pick them up at a bargain basement price (Hudson, Akermanis, Hall) or they are young and not getting a go where they are. Prising someone away from where he is wanted and happy costs a fortune and unless you have salary cap exceptions is fraught with danger.

Good points - the player for player swap is a rarity anyway.

A player can be persuaded/encouraged to explore another opporunity if it was deemed suitable - example would be Bradshaw to Carlton last year...he said no in the end so he didn't go there...and then the implications of doing what you'd call the 'devils' work set in (Bradshaw has the poos and leaves with no compensation - no idea what it's done to their group but by all accounts he was popular)

I thought Collingwood did ok getting Medhurst in - Farmer was the 1st choice goal sneak, meaning a quality player wasn't getting a regular game....and Medhurst was obviously keen for an opportunity elsewhere