Gia v/s Aker

[LostDoggy]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

As a small fwd I still think he is. Gia had a good game in midfield when Boyd was out - but as a small fwd hasn't set the world alight. His numbers may be OK - but I'd hazard most of his goals have been Junk time.

Your guessing because you are anti Gia.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

Fairly dumb thread.

In reference to the OP,

"Small forwards must be able to slot goals" - Why? If he's making play which results in goals, isn't that just the same? Individual goal tallies are massively overrated.

"be super slick in his disposal" - Apart from Higgins and Murphy when they're in form (rarely), Gia is easily our most dangerous player with his disposal, he assesses situations very quickly and his kicks are excellently weighted.

"slot the crucial goal from 45 in a final" - It's not like any player gets the opportunity to prove themselves in this situation that often, so it's a pretty silly argument. In any case if this situation did arise, I'd want the ball in Gia's hands.

"can he take turn in the middle?" - Of course he can, he proved that when Boyd was out, becoming an elite midfielder in his absence.

"Aker can do everything on the field that Gia can but better" - Aker goes missing for massive parts of games, does not consistently hit targets inside fifty the way Gia does, and struggles to beat good opponents where Gia thrives. I would take Gia every day of the week.

He has been our best forward this year, maybe even best forward for the last 3-4 years, he is a true leader, perhaps future captain of the club, he will not, and should not, be dropped.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

Fairly dumb thread.

Fairly harsh appraisal!

He has been our best forward this year, maybe even best forward for the last 3-4 years, he is a true leader, perhaps future captain of the club, he will not, and should not, be dropped.

Gia our best forward? Hall's 54 goals not good enough this year? Or Johnno leading the tally in recent years... I don't disagree with the bulk of your post, but isn't calling him our best forward a teeny bit generous?

[chef]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

As a small fwd I still think he is. Gia had a good game in midfield when Boyd was out - but as a small fwd hasn't set the world alight. His numbers may be OK - but I'd hazard most of his goals have been Junk time.

He has still preformed a hell of a lot better than Aker this season.

[chef]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

"Small forwards must be able to slot goals" - Why? If he's making play which results in goals, isn't that just the same? Individual goal tallies are massively overrated.

"be super slick in his disposal" - Apart from Higgins and Murphy when they're in form (rarely), Gia is easily our most dangerous player with his disposal, he assesses situations very quickly and his kicks are excellently weighted.

"slot the crucial goal from 45 in a final" - It's not like any player gets the opportunity to prove themselves in this situation that often, so it's a pretty silly argument. In any case if this situation did arise, I'd want the ball in Gia's hands.

"can he take turn in the middle?" - Of course he can, he proved that when Boyd was out, becoming an elite midfielder in his absence.

"Aker can do everything on the field that Gia can but better" - Aker goes missing for massive parts of games, does not consistently hit targets inside fifty the way Gia does, and struggles to beat good opponents where Gia thrives. I would take Gia every day of the week.

I agree with all of this^^.

[The Coon Dog]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

As a small fwd I still think he is. Gia had a good game in midfield when Boyd was out - but as a small fwd hasn't set the world alight. His numbers may be OK - but I'd hazard most of his goals have been Junk time.

Gia has kicked 18 goals this season.

Breakdown as follows:

1st qtr goals: 4
2nd qtr goals: 7
3rd qtr goals: 3
4th qtr goals: 4

Hardly junk time goals there!

[chef]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

Gia has kicked 18 goals this season.

Breakdown as follows:

1st qtr goals: 4
2nd qtr goals: 7
3rd qtr goals: 3
4th qtr goals: 4

Hardly junk time goals there!

Have you got his assists stat too TCD?

[Bulldog4332]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

Fairly dumb thread.

Thanks, appreciate your considered opinion. Have had about 20 or so serious comments about the thread.
In reference to the OP,

"Small forwards must be able to slot goals" - Why? If he's making play which results in goals, isn't that just the same? Individual goal tallies are massively overrated.

If small forwards do not slot goals then you lose finals- see schneider and milne as case in points. One thing I saw for the first time this year is how HALL wants to kick goals, if he gets it on the ground you know he will wheel and try to kick the goal. It is refreshing. If small forwards do not try to get goals then what are they doing?

"be super slick in his disposal" - Apart from Higgins and Murphy when they're in form (rarely), Gia is easily our most dangerous player with his disposal, he assesses situations very quickly and his kicks are excellently weighted.

Have a look at his disposal efficiency, it is poor. He often misses targets both by hand and foot. It works like this, Gia tries to spot up a leading target, misses and then slaps his thigh. It happens all the time.

"slot the crucial goal from 45 in a final" - It's not like any player gets the opportunity to prove themselves in this situation that often, so it's a pretty silly argument. In any case if this situation did arise, I'd want the ball in Gia's hands.

You did not watch the carlton game, 45 out refused to shoot, pass to hall on much worse angle, point. I am not sure if you have seen any games this year Gia will not kick from 40 out, again in presure cooker finals you just do not get the chance to finesse with another pass 25 out in front. Come on, chapman kicks from 50, my whole post was in the context of finals.

"can he take turn in the middle?" - Of course he can, he proved that when Boyd was out, becoming an elite midfielder in his absence.

I think one good game about 10 weeks ago. He has not rotated thought the middle for a long time. Yes cameos but not constantly.

"Aker can do everything on the field that Gia can but better" - Aker goes missing for massive parts of games, does not consistently hit targets inside fifty the way Gia does, and struggles to beat good opponents where Gia thrives. I would take Gia every day of the week.

You are dreaming. Most posters have pointed to Gia's new defensive role, there is some merit in this but that means he no longer poses a true offensive threat.

He has been our best forward this year, maybe even best forward for the last 3-4 years, he is a true leader, perhaps future captain of the club, he will not, and should not, be dropped.

He will never be captain, should never be captain, he does not have the persona or gravitas, BOYD is the man.

OK, so our best forward line is HALL, MURPHY, JOHNO, HIGGINS, GRANT and another small forward- the original question I posed still remains, who will win the grandfinal, Gia or Aker.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

Fairly harsh appraisal!



Gia our best forward? Hall's 54 goals not good enough this year? Or Johnno leading the tally in recent years... I don't disagree with the bulk of your post, but isn't calling him our best forward a teeny bit generous?

I don't think much of goal tallies, and ignoring what Barry offers structurally, he himself has had too many very quiet games to be considered our best forward. Obviously every team needs players who can actually kick the goals and convert good play to the scoreboard, I appreciate that, but I generally find that players who can consistently create the said 'good play' are rarer and more valuable than those who can consistently convert said 'good play' to goals.

Johnno was definitely our most dangerous forward 3-4 years ago, but lately does much of his good work up the ground while Gia has been the best assist player in the league in that time.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

I don't think much of goal tallies, and ignoring what Barry offers structurally, he himself has had too many very quiet games to be considered our best forward. Obviously every team needs players who can actually kick the goals and convert good play to the scoreboard, I appreciate that, but I generally find that players who can consistently create the said 'good play' are rarer and more valuable than those who can consistently convert said 'good play' to goals.

Johnno was definitely our most dangerous forward 3-4 years ago, but lately does much of his good work up the ground while Gia has been the best assist player in the league in that time.

Fair enough, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one...I think Hall has been our best forward this year by a mile. Even when his goalkicking output has been down, his tackling and defensive efforts have been there. I wouldn't have said he had that many very quiet games - a few, sure, but who hasn't? His ability to create a contest is, IMO unmatched this year, and if I had to choose one to give the ball to in the F50, he'd be the one. Not to discredit Gia's work, I'm a fan of his, but to me, Bazza's the one.

[EasternWest]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

He will never be captain, should never be captain, he does not have the persona or gravitas, BOYD is the man.

OK, so our best forward line is HALL, MURPHY, JOHNO, HIGGINS, GRANT and another small forward- the original question I posed still remains, who will win the grandfinal, Gia or Aker.

It's true. Aker was a big influence in the finals last year .

[LostDoggy]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

Gia has kicked 18 goals this season.

Breakdown as follows:

1st qtr goals: 4
2nd qtr goals: 7
3rd qtr goals: 3
4th qtr goals: 4

Hardly junk time goals there!

Thanks TCD

[LostDoggy]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

I don't think much of goal tallies, and ignoring what Barry offers structurally, he himself has had too many very quiet games to be considered our best forward. Obviously every team needs players who can actually kick the goals and convert good play to the scoreboard, I appreciate that, but I generally find that players who can consistently create the said 'good play' are rarer and more valuable than those who can consistently convert said 'good play' to goals.

Johnno was definitely our most dangerous forward 3-4 years ago, but lately does much of his good work up the ground while Gia has been the best assist player in the league in that time.

Dude, good play doesn't win games. Goals do. Forwards who kick goals therefore are very popular for some reason, and ones who don't, sublime skills notwithstanding, aren't.

Case in point: Ask a St Kilda fan immediately after the Granny last year what their thoughts on Milney were.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

Gia needs to loosen up a lot. Did anyone see his overly serious face straight after the game last Saturday night? He doesn't seem to be enjoying his footy at all. He only seems to smile for the social pages lately!!

[Scorlibo]

Re: Gia v/s Aker

If small forwards do not slot goals then you lose finals- see schneider and milne as case in points. One thing I saw for the first time this year is how HALL wants to kick goals, if he gets it on the ground you know he will wheel and try to kick the goal. It is refreshing. If small forwards do not try to get goals then what are they doing?

If you kick more goals than the opposition then you win. It doesn't matter who kicks them, if the small forwards don't kick them, but others do, then who cares? A goal is a goal is a goal. Gia is a very different type of player to Milne and to a lesser extent, Schneider, he is not expected to be the typical, front and centre roving small forward, he is there to be creative, smart and to create goals, even if he doesn't kick them himself. Conversely, Barry's role within the team is very goal-centric, his bull-at-a-gate goal hunger is great, he is in the team to do that, but that doesn't mean that Gia's more considered approach towards goals isn't just as effective in creating goals for the team.

Have a look at his disposal efficiency, it is poor. He often misses targets both by hand and foot. It works like this, Gia tries to spot up a leading target, misses and then slaps his thigh. It happens all the time.

Disposal efficiency is a poor indicator, Gia does most of his work around the fifty, which is obviously the area of the ground with the highest turnover rate, if he can have 5 effective inside fifties in a game, he will have been a very good contributor. Having just looked at his disposal efficiency, I can say that it has only dropped below 60% once this season, and has been above 70% in 11 games, which is a very good return for someone who plays his position, some of the best kicking defenders in the competition only average around 80% DE.

You did not watch the carlton game, 45 out refused to shoot, pass to hall on much worse angle, point. I am not sure if you have seen any games this year Gia will not kick from 40 out, again in presure cooker finals you just do not get the chance to finesse with another pass 25 out in front. Come on, chapman kicks from 50, my whole post was in the context of finals.

Correction: I was at the Carlton game. I do not recall the incident you are referring to, but I would hazard a guess that most of the time when Gia chooses to give it off from within range, it turns out very well for the team.

I think one good game about 10 weeks ago. He has not rotated thought the middle for a long time. Yes cameos but not constantly.

Whose fault is that? He played through the middle 10 weeks ago when Boyd was out, since then Rocket has had more midfield options and has had the luxury of playing Gia around the fifty

You are dreaming. Most posters have pointed to Gia's new defensive role, there is some merit in this but that means he no longer poses a true offensive threat.

That is simply not true, often being a defensive forward means reading the play well enough to burn your opponent offensively when they choose to run off you - thus making them second guess about running off of you again. Higgo and Gia do it very well.

OK, so our best forward line is HALL, MURPHY, JOHNO, HIGGINS, GRANT and another small forward- the original question I posed still remains, who will win the grandfinal, Gia or Aker.

Neither, it is the team that wins games not any individual, and as Gia has done far more for the team than Aker this year, and as this year's games are the only indication we have of who will perform best in a Grand Final, AND as a Grand Final is purely a hypothetical at this stage, Gia>Aker.

Satisfied?