What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

[mjp]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

Have a look at the inclusions this year, Wood, Grant, Jones & Moles to name a few.... There has to be a transition otherwise we may bottom out (which we cannot afford to do)

Agree with all of that...our list management has been really good this year and seemingly focussed on both today and tomorrow.

My only concern is that the 2009 draft will slow us down in the future - Howard seems to be coming along, Tutt OK but very small whilst Markovic and Thorne are seemingly very limited.

[Bornadog]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

Agree with all of that...our list management has been really good this year and seemingly focussed on both today and tomorrow.

My only concern is that the 2009 draft will slow us down in the future - Howard seems to be coming along, Tutt OK but very small whilst Markovic and Thorne are seemingly very limited.

We did not do a good job with 2009. Looks like only Howard will come through. If Panos can get his fitness up he may become a player and as you say Tutt may be ok.

[Bornadog]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

Hargrave has been a let down his whole career against the top teams, if we can get everyone fit he is the weakest link in our finals defensive set up.

I suppose you are also one that bags Gia as well.

[chef]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

We did not do a good job with 2009. Looks like only Howard will come through. If Panos can get his fitness up he may become a player and as you say Tutt may be ok.

And Hooper seems to be doing alright too.

[chef]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

Saturday's game?

A mere flesh wound - a minor setback

I travelled over for the game without any notion of a Doggies win because:

• A six day break from the hardest game of the year (brought about by wet conditions)
  
• Kennel cough causing two postponements of training sessions
  
• Players not fully recovered from virus
  
• Unavailability of important players - Hudson, Cooney, Harbrow and Grant

Add to this on the night the inexplicable performance of Lake, the playing of unfit players, Higgins and Ward and the ineptitude (again) of Eagleton in a big match plus the lack of any attempt to play a shut-down role on their runners at centre bounces and we were on a hiding to nothing.

What will it mean come September?

Absolutely nothing, because not one of the noted events of Saturday night will be repeated.

Great post EJ, I share your optimism.

[Ozza]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

I have been stewing over the game since it finished. Really not sure what to think. My first reaction was that I fear we are poorly coached - but have since thought thats maybe too harsh. Plenty will say 'well our guys didn't follow instruction' etc - but when you're getting beaten by 100 points and go with the same formula all night - the coach has to be getting a whack too.

What worries me is that our game style simply doesn't stand up to the best teams and we seem to have no way of turning the game to have it played in the way we want. The saints can make the game a defensive slog, Geelong can turn the game into what it was the other night - flicking the ball around and using the corridor - Collingwood can swarm you with pressure and find loose players pushing forward bobbing up in the 50 on the rebound. We don't have the ability to play our preferred style, on our terms against the best.

What concerned me specifically about the other night was;

- Boyd head to head on Ablett. Boyd was smashed and there was no plan B (a Herald Sun writer had Boyd in our best 2!)
- If Cross is going to have no impact with the ball - why isn't he locking down an opposition gun?
- Saturday had to be the end for Eagle. Good against the rubbish, but rubbish against the good sides, I don't think we can afford to carry him in the big games.
- Higgins is a massive concern. Injured again, but he is slow and makes too many kicking errors and doesn't seem to step up when required.
- Johnno really battled.

The silver lining is;

- Huddo will be back...I can't remember the last time I saw a Ruckman slam the ball down his midfielders throats at top speed like Ottens did on Saturday - he schooled our boys.
- Cooney will be back.
- Williams really stood up when he needed to.

[Mantis]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

I suppose you are also one that bags Gia as well.

Hargrave was poor.

His kicking was ultra predictable and he was cut apart by the Geelong smalls.

He had a stinker.

[Greystache]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

I suppose you are also one that bags Gia as well.

What the hell are you talking about?

A season is only as good as how you perform when it matters most, we have several senior players who regularly fail in big games, hence we're 0-4 against the top three teams this year and 0-4 against top 4 teams in finals the past two years. Hargrave is one of them.

I suppose you're one of those supporters that walks away from losing a final saying x played 2 poor finals but he was really consistent in the H&A season, so he had a good year.

[Murphy'sLore]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

Just remember how it feels to be recovering from flu - not a cold, the flu. The wobbly weakness of your whole body, the fuzzy head, the shortness of breath, the effort it takes to even contemplate getting out of bed to go to the toilet.

Now imagine you have to haul yourself out of bed in that state, not to totter down the hallway, but to go out onto the middle of Etihad Stadium and play a tough, punishing game of football against ruthless opposition.

No bloody wonder we were belted. I just hope the boys can all fully recover in time for finals.

[Mantis]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

Just remember how it feels to be recovering from flu - not a cold, the flu. The wobbly weakness of your whole body, the fuzzy head, the shortness of breath, the effort it takes to even contemplate getting out of bed to go to the toilet.

Now imagine you have to haul yourself out of bed in that state, not to totter down the hallway, but to go out onto the middle of Etihad Stadium and play a tough, punishing game of football against ruthless opposition.

No bloody wonder we were belted. I just hope the boys can all fully recover in time for finals.

That's all good and well, but some of our best players on the night were those who were most affected by the virus.

From those most affected just Gilbee & Moles performed poorly.

[Jasper]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

What the hell are you talking about?

A season is only as good as how you perform when it matters most, we have several senior players who regularly fail in big games, hence we're 0-4 against the top three teams this year and 0-4 against top 4 teams in finals the past two years. Hargrave is one of them.

I suppose you're one of those supporters that walks away from losing a final saying x played 2 poor finals but he was really consistent in the H&A season, so he had a good year.

If we do happen to win the flag this year, unlikely but not out of the realm of possibility, would you please start a thread entitled I AM SORRY, I WAS WRONG.

[Greystache]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

If we do happen to win the flag this year, unlikely but not out of the realm of possibility, would you please start a thread entitled I AM SORRY, I WAS WRONG.

Who are you again?

If we even beat one of the top sides in a final I'll happily acknowledge it.

[LostDoggy]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

The fish rots from the head and all that. When Geelong, St.Kilda or Collingwood are down against the good sides, there are a few certainties: Ablett Jr, Scarlett, Selwood, and Bartel will show up for the Cats, Lenny Hayes, St. Nick and Goddard will show up for the Saints, and Dane Swan, Didak and Maxwell will show up for the Pies. They may still end up losing, but these guys will stand up and take a contested mark, grab the ball from the maul, throw themselves into tackle after tackle, launch themselves to smother kicks, force the ball over the line.

When these guys show up, even the mentally crappy, poop-in-your-pants, deer in the headlights type players like Farren Ray, Zac Dawson, Rapist Milne, Dale Thomas, Leon Davis, Travis Cloke, Cam Mooney, Tom Hawkins et al stand taller and play above themselves.

Let's stop bagging Eagle, Hargrave, Everitt, Moles, and all the other depth players on our list with clear deficiencies. They are who they are, and are often crap, but expecting them to do things they can't will only end in tears. Lyon knows that Farren can't kick in traffic, so he plans accordingly. He knows Zac can't play one-on-one, and plans accordingly.

What I'm more worried about, and has been raised by many others on this forum over the years, are our leaders. Where is our Lenny Hayes, our Dane Swan, our Jimmy Bartel? Guys who aren't just guns, but will stand up at crucial moments in a match and do the crazy 1-percenters and drag the team with them. Guys who will be quiet for half a game but then pull out 7 possies in 3 minutes when the game is on the line. Coons doesn't do that regularly enough in big games, Griff tries but hasn't quite gotten there yet, Boydy and Crossy think they're doing it but aren't really, Gia tries but just doesn't have the presence to pull it off, ditto Murph. Johnno used to be our guy.

Johnno used to be our guy.

--

ps. this is why I disliked the Aker saga so much, not because I give a crap about Aker, but because it just showed the mental fragility of our leadership. Teddy Whitten would have just taken Jason out the back for a little chat and that would have been the end of it -- when the big man spoke to you, you knew you had been spoken to. Instead, with our softly, softly type leaders, the saga dragged on and on and ended in a pissweak way. This lack of presence and inability to command respect off the field translates into a lack of influence on it. Maybe our leaders just aren't good enough (skillswise), but I think there is also an attitude factor.

In my opinion (for what it's worth), it all boils down to leadership (or the lack thereof).

[Bornadog]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

What the hell are you talking about?

.

I am talking about supporters that bag Hargrave and Gia when we lose, hear it all the time.

A season is only as good as how you perform when it matters most, we have several senior players who regularly fail in big games, hence we're 0-4 against the top three teams this year and 0-4 against top 4 teams in finals the past two years. Hargrave is one of them.

.

2009 Prelim versus Saints - Hargrave 25 disposals , 7 marks, only Griffen, Boyd and Cooney touched the ball more.

I suppose you're one of those supporters that walks away from losing a final saying x played 2 poor finals but he was really consistent in the H&A season, so he had a good year.

Players can have a poor finals series, doesn't mean they didn't perform for the year? In reverse, so do you believe players can have a poor H&A and two good finals so they were great that year?

[Bornadog]

Re: What does last night do to our finals aspirations?

Hargrave was poor.

His kicking was ultra predictable and he was cut apart by the Geelong smalls.

He had a stinker.

They all had a stinker. When you lose by that much, in my opinion vitually, all positions were beaten.

Greystache 's arguement is about Hargrave's whole career not just Saturday.