Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

[lemmon]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

The question mark over Eade is growing substantially in my own mind. Is he capable of taking the final step and winning a flag? At Sydney and now with us he seems incapable of taking that last leap, does he have the finishing skills required? He is capable of building and getting the best out of a list but is by far the longest serving coach without a flag, questions must be raised.
His man managment also must be questioned, he seems to have only one approach and whenever things go wrong he seems to respond with a massive spray, has this method began to wear off and dull for the group?

Mark Williams as a proven premiership coach is now on the market and if we were to part way's with Eade there is seemingly a capable replacement on the horizon.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

The question mark over Eade is growing substantially in my own mind. Is he capable of taking the final step and winning a flag? At Sydney and now with us he seems incapable of taking that last leap, does he have the finishing skills required? He is capable of building and getting the best out of a list but is by far the longest serving coach without a flag, questions must be raised.
His man managment also must be questioned, he seems to have only one approach and whenever things go wrong he seems to respond with a massive spray, has this method began to wear off and dull for the group?

Mark Williams as a proven premiership coach is now on the market and if we were to part way's with Eade there is seemingly a capable replacement on the horizon.

Anybody but Williams, ex- Collingwood tie pulling wank.

[Topdog]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

I love both these guys but I want to know at what point the defensive side of their game went missing? Both used to be able to get a lot of the ball and hold their opponent at bay fairly well now they still get a lot of the pill but their opponents get it just as much and are just so much more damaging!

I'm in the same boat.

Serious question here. Has there ever been a more disappointing moment that has no bearing on the final result than Cross being outrun by Leigh Brown?

[Jasper]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

It would tear my heart out, tear the heart out of the club, to sell a player. It would make all that the club are striving for that much less important.

Collingwood are the perfect example of what creates success. It's not about having the perfect personnel, it's about those personnel working as a perfect team, knowing each other's strengths and tendencies. An experienced team wins premierships, not a team of experienced players, and it astounds me how often people in the media fail to distinguish between the two.

Interesting point. I wonder how Josh Fraser, Tarkyn Lockyer, Paul Medhurst and Shane O'Bree hearts feel as the club gets close to ultimate success and they sit on the sidelines. If we were any good, you'd think players like Hargrave, Gia, Johnno and even Gilbee would be in the same boat.

And every club turns players over, its an AFL requirement.

And I can understand your sentiment applying if we were successful, rather than just a good bunch of blokes who take losing well. As far as I'm concerned there needs to be a ruthlessness applied that while not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, still demands and rewards success. I don't think the club addreses poor onfield behaviours, unless your initials are A Everitt that is.

[Jasper]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

I'm in the same boat.

Serious question here. Has there ever been a more disappointing moment that has no bearing on the final result than Cross being outrun by Leigh Brown?

Gia's half hearted effort near the boundary line, Callan Ward's field kicking and kicking for goal, Barry Hall's hands in the back, overall timidity, Eades tactics of allowing Maxwell free reign, Boyd's turnovers.....Shaun Higgins and Brad Johnson's inability to raise a gallop, hold their feet or win contested ball, oh hang on you said that had no bearing on the final result....

Addison's brilliant hard work to win the ball against the odds, and then his kick straight to Thomas in the third quarter, summed up Dylan's career.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

I think we all had high expectations for the team this year, Looking at the injuries early on they have plagued us all year. Again it's not an excuse but if you look at the other top 4 sides they are almost 100% fit.

I think the gamble with Eagle, Jonno and Aker hasn't gone our way but I was keen at the start of year on at least two of them.

I am prepared to wait a couple more games to see how we respond and sure we can make the prelim again. although that is not an improvement on last year under the circumstances I'll take it.

The off season I agree they need to sort out the players leadership group and the aging list. As for Rocket I cant see him getting paid out as I don't think anyone out their would do a better job and can we afford to do that. If the assistants are not up to it get it sorted! but we have had a huge turn off in assistant coaches and maybe that is something we need to give some more time too see the benefits.

I still rate the list but we need a strong leadership group that wont go soft in big games.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

If we were talking about a replacement for Eade, would Mathews be to far past it.
He got Collingwood over the line and took the Lions to 3 premierships.

[stefoid]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

I'm in the same boat.

Serious question here. Has there ever been a more disappointing moment that has no bearing on the final result than Cross being outrun by Leigh Brown?

Hes slow, but we knew that. I was disapointed with his constant turnovers. He had a shocker.

game plan: what was with the kickins.. seriously? what was the plan there? We picked a team for rain, but that doesnt mean we have to play the whole game pretending it was raining

half of collingwoods I50s came from us bombing to an outnumbered contest 55m out and just banging it back in again. FFS!!!!

[Jasper]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

I still rate the list but we need a strong leadership group that wont go soft in big games.

This sentence is the problem the club faces, we have a group of proven good H&A players, and they seem to be highly rated by the club, themselves and many supporters.

Problem is the opposition don't rate them (David King, Grant Thomas, Mark McClure, Stan Alves speak of our players with a contempt that I am sure is prevalent in the AFL community), and our senior players continue to fail against quality opposition in big games, whats the stat, two wins in thirteen games in the last few years against Geelong, Saints and Pies?

The only way to address the problem is to change personnel at the high age end of the list, this is where the culture is deepest rooted, this is where the least improvement (or more likely decline) is apparent.

This means hard decisions on a lot of the players I've listed earlier, and first decision is whether Eade can make those decisions, and on this year's performance of rewarding onfield mediocrity to players based on unfounded reputations - Eade's record at the selection table is a massive concern when it comes time to address our list.

[ReLoad]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

Problem is the opposition don't rate them (David King, Grant Thomas, Mark McClure, Stan Alves speak of our players with a contempt that I am sure is prevalent in the AFL community), and our senior players continue to fail against quality opposition in big games, whats the stat, two wins in thirteen games in the last few years against Geelong, Saints and Pies?

The way Stan Alves questioned Matthew Boyd last night was appalling, if I was boydy I would have snapped him in half.

If we are taking advice from bitter and twisted old men (3 of the above 4), then were seriously stuffed.

[Jasper]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

If we were talking about a replacement for Eade, would Mathews be to far past it.
He got Collingwood over the line and took the Lions to 3 premierships.

I don't believe 'old school' methods that coaches like Eade use, that is when under pressure lose control and give a spray. In the past Barassi used this tactic to great effect. Now many players switch off and lose respect. Yes there is a time to give a bake but only rarely, not weekly.

Looking at his brother, and assuming identical twins with similar grounding and premiership experience would perform similarly (big assumption??), and who has a better way of communicating to younger players, I reckon Chris Scott could be the man.

[Jasper]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

The way Stan Alves questioned Matthew Boyd last night was appalling, if I was boydy I would have snapped him in half.

If we are taking advice from bitter and twisted old men (3 of the above 4), then were seriously stuffed.

Mate those bitter and twisted men know something. You don't think the contempt Thomas has for the Bulldogs hasn't permeated through the entire Saints list (wasn't McClure at the Saints when Thomas was)? I reckon the Saints would reckon they can beat us when they want - and they do.

And I think Alves questioned Gilbee.

The Alistair Lynch choking gesture to Scott West continues to haunt.

[ReLoad]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

Mate those bitter and twisted men know something. You don't think the contempt Thomas has for the Bulldogs hasn't permeated through the entire Saints list (wasn't McClure at the Saints when Thomas was)? I reckon the Saints would reckon they can beat us when they want - and they do.

And I think Alves questioned Gilbee.

The Alistair Lynch choking gesture to Scott West continues to haunt.

Geez its easy to question the mental fragility of our playing group when your an outsider isnt it?

Its pretty obvious we have flaws and issues, but i've seen my team (dunno about your team) play with more spirit and heart over a long period of time. Remember that game vs collingwood after wallace got the ass? or how about the final in 2006? Or what about when Libba had his head smashed in at waverley against the saints yet still brought Robert harvey down in match saving tackle?

Its amazing how one defining point can turn a match, but you cannot tell me that last year if reiwoldt handt have gotten that free kick that we would not have won that match?

No, were not good enough to win a flag, no we dont have the personel, But only 1 team does, the team that wins, you could apply the same argument to all other 15 teams that dont win the flag.

[azabob]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

So you don't go to the Essendon and Carlton school of management

Tend to agree in principle. How would a conversation go with Eade to the effect that "Rodney we intend to honour your contract for 2011, however there is a strong chance your contract won't be renewed post 2011, you have our blessing if you wish to pursue the two coaching positions that are open at the moment. In the interim we must say we are concerned about the lack of progress in some of the younger players and the lack of consistent opportunity they have been given. The continual playing of patently ill players such as Brad Johnson and Shaun Higgins, is a concern. We are therefore looking to introduce new systems and processes to maximise the performance of our list. This may mean a diminishment of your responsibilities."

I would love for this to happen but I dont think it will.
Smorgon is too involved / passionate to make an informed decision, does Fantasia have the hard edge to have this conversation and probably Rose would have it but does he have enough understanding of what happens on the field to do it?

[azabob]

Re: Can the Current Players and Staff win a Flag?

Gia's half hearted effort near the boundary line, Callan Ward's field kicking and kicking for goal, Barry Hall's hands in the back, overall timidity, Eades tactics of allowing Maxwell free reign, Boyd's turnovers.....Shaun Higgins and Brad Johnson's inability to raise a gallop, hold their feet or win contested ball, oh hang on you said that had no bearing on the final result....

Addison's brilliant hard work to win the ball against the odds, and then his kick straight to Thomas in the third quarter, summed up Dylan's career.

Don't forget Hahn not wanting to mark the football he'd rather punch it away, or Harbrow continually running over the footy, or Gilbee and the entire backline having no idea how to get the ball out of the defencive 50.