2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

[The Pie Man]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Maybe this year. This year he has struggled and hasn't been great. Last year however he showed his true value to the side, and is clearly capable of being a very good player. His currency in the trade market wouldn't be anywhere near what hebrings to our side, and until we have someone performing well enough in the VFL to suggest they would be worth developing in his spot, he stays. That isn't to say he shouldn't be dropped for poor form however.

Agreed - sad that Tiller couldn't keep fit long enough this year, he's the one player who could've put some pressure on Shaggy and challenged. Future up in the air now, didn't have a great VFL prelim. Personally I'd hold onto him, there's a fair cut already happening to the list to suggest he could still land a spot.

[macca]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Would Tarrant be worth looking at CHB ? Frees up Lake to play forward, and allows development time for Jones. We don't want to be over playing Jones too much like the pies did Fraser. I know its easy to talk with hindsight, but last year we should have gone hard to get Luke ball. He has added some grunt to the pies midfield,and much depth, which is clearly what we are lacking in crucial crunch time ganes. Trade Gia, he can't perform on the big stage and we could get value out of him. And lets clear the list cloggers like: stack, and Mulligan. Really, why did we not pick Barlow over keeping Mulligan? Play Moles, make him play a specific role, and ask Boyd to pull out the defensive side of his game, which early on his career. Boyd is not the game breaking midfield that we have been looking for.

[becmatty]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Mantis left them out because they continually fail to produce results in big games. Hargrave and Gilbee were terrible for the most part this year and should not be automatic inclusions.

Picking players based on reputation has seen us fall short once again. Maybe we should 'adapt and evolve' our selection criteria to include current form?

Boyd has been consistent player for years and outstanding in many big games. He narrowly missed All-Australian again this year and is one of the first picked every week. Thankfully you and Mantis aren't on the MC.

Hargrave has played through injury for the best part of the year and requires surgery this week. He is a star, and will continue to be an integral part of our bakline.

Gilbee's formline took a dip this year, but still a star. Will be looking for a bigger year in 2011.

We need to draft players around these existing ones to compliment their attributes, rather than culling them.

[Mantis]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Boyd has been consistent player for years and outstanding in many big games. He narrowly missed All-Australian again this year and is one of the first picked every week. Thankfully you and Mantis aren't on the MC.

Hargrave has played through injury for the best part of the year and requires surgery this week. He is a star, and will continue to be an integral part of our bakline.

Gilbee's formline took a dip this year, but still a star. Will be looking for a bigger year in 2011.

We need to draft players around these existing ones to compliment their attributes, rather than culling them.

Which 'big' games has Boyd been outstanding in?

Both Hargrave & Gilbee have been poor this year, I didn't know about Hargrave's injury until this morning so he gets some slack cut, but both players are getting on and their best doesn't cut it against quality opponents.

[comrade]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Moles has played 6 games and is miles ahead of someone like Hooper. Why isn't he the next messiah? Strange.

Mitch Wallis board.

[LostDoggy]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

I am an Eade fan and I don't want him replaced. However, I believe it is our game plan that needs to change, whereas our line-up just requires tinkering. Ray, Blake, Dawson, is that the key to the strongest backline in the league. Or is it the zone they do their work in.

Just a few years ago this board was rejoicing in the departures of Ray and McMahon, two fast running, outside mids. Now the board is calling for Tambling to be recruited. Twelve months all we needed was a power forward. Now, after falling short again, it is a small forward and Richard Tambling. All that is happening here is that posters are identifying areas where we don't have potential All Australians and calling them weaknesses.

I hate Saints Footy and I hate Collingwood, but I am not getting any younger. What we need is to win a Premiership is a Premiership winning game plan and the discipline to carry it out.

The Pies have developed a young team capable of the 'swarm'. It seems to me that for the swarm to be really effective, you need absolutely well drilled players. It also requires a depth of players who can outrun and out endure opponents, who cut the angles and cover the ground to continually deny the ball carrier space.....and who in turn have the ability to move the ball out of a pack quickly yet exceedingly accurately to free up a player.

I don't think we have the players to beat the swarm. If you are slow to react, have poor skills under pressure, and cannot shake a tag or complete a match of running without tiring badly, then you are going to struggle to beat sides like Collingwood (as we have found out 3 times this year).

[1eyedog]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Mitch Wallis board.

Because he's 25 and Hooper is 19. Moles is as good as he is going to get. He may develop further in some areas but we pretty much know what we're getting.

Hooper is an unknown, young, quick and apparently goal savvy. I don't think he is the next messiah but he is a more exciting prospect than Moles is IMO.

[Missing Dog]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Higgins and Ward have been restricted by injury and I think this is a direct correlation.

I think Boyd gets a lot of kicks in the clinches and not being the speediest player, rarely has the space to release the ball when he is balanced and poised.

I think Gilbee has been the other player who has dropped with kicking efficiency, but it more seems to do with his selection/option rather than execution.

You can times this for about 15 of the players on the list: we lack players with the football intelligence to execute the right decision quickly. That also depends on the off-the-ball players creating options by moving around the ball carrier.

[Missing Dog]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

There's "Saints footy", we've had Geelong with their half back's and possession footy, and theres now Collingwood's "swarm". The common theme is a coach and MC devising a game plan that fits his players,and tweaking that by introducing players that fit that game plan and omitting even established names that don't. Rather than trying to emulate other club's game plans and styles, we need a MC and coach who can build a game plan and style that suits OUR players, getting a few additional players that fit that game style and omitting ones that don't. Is Eade the coach to come up with that?

[Mofra]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

There's "Saints footy", we've had Geelong with their half back's and possession footy, and theres now Collingwood's "swarm". The common theme is a coach and MC devising a game plan that fits his players,and tweaking that by introducing players that fit that game plan and omitting even established names that don't. Rather than trying to emulate other club's game plans and styles, we need a MC and coach who can build a game plan and style that suits OUR players, getting a few additional players that fit that game style and omitting ones that don't. Is Eade the coach to come up with that?

Given Geelong basically started by copying Eade circa 2005, I dare say Eade is the coach. He is one of the best match-day tacticians and the problems at the club for mine are the guys at no 25-30 on the list not putting enough pressure on for a spot in the seniors.

I'm not sure any team would have won a prelim without their best player this year, including Collingwood.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Given Geelong basically started by copying Eade circa 2005, I dare say Eade is the coach. He is one of the best match-day tacticians and the problems at the club for mine are the gusy at no 25-30 on the list not putting enough pressure on for a spot in the seniors.

I'm not sure any team would have won a prelim without their best player this year, including Collingwood.

Before I Die you're right , the most critical thing we need is the team to be well drilled in an effective game plan, more so than recruiting.
Eade came up with one that Geelong perfected, which is now redundant, being surpassed by Collingwoods 'swarm'. Malthouse has shown that he and his MC can create a dominant game plan, then we must hope Eade can too. The current one didn't work or wasn't well drilled enough.

[stefoid]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Manic midfield version: as many midfielders as we can run in short bursts through the midfield - midfield is slowish, but the theory is that a fresh medium paced player will get around the ground faster than a tired quick player, both offensively AND defensively -- it takes energy to chase manically

Midfield: cooney, higgins, boyd, guido, griff, cross, picken, ward, wallis

key position: Lake, Williams, Hudson, Roughead, Jones, Hall

pure flankers: morris, gilbee, grant, wood, murphy, hargrave, everitt

backup: minson, reid, libba

Guys in bold need to be played into form. may mean we drop games earlier in the year, but we will make up for it later in the year and coming into finals.

Backup guys get their chance through injury or outstanding form.

I dont know if collingwoods midfielders are all that quick collectively, but they are certainly energetic. I think the pies have turned the notion on its head that you have to have a team of endurance runners -- its hard to train for endurance and power at the same time.

Pies model helps guys like Gia who doesnt have a big tank but is a very good ball user, and guys like griffen and coon to utilize their burst capability which must be difficult to do when tired. Also taking regular breaks probably helps concentration for those players who tend to go missing.

Need to arrange subs so that our inside midfielders have good ball users around them at all times.

Would like to see Picken utilize his pace by developing an offensive side to his game and Boyd to minimise his deficiencies in much the same way cross has done by developing more of a defensive game.

[Mofra]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

^^^ Fair summary stefoid. I disagree on Everitt (intensity issues) and don't think Libba (and probably not Wallis) will be ready for a major impact next year, but the overall sentiment is something we need to implement.
I'd be hoping Reid graduates from back-up to legitimate midfield option, DFA pretty close to best 22 next year as well after his late-season run.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

Manic midfield version: as many midfielders as we can run in short bursts through the midfield - midfield is slowish, but the theory is that a fresh medium paced player will get around the ground faster than a tired quick player, both offensively AND defensively -- it takes energy to chase manically

Midfield: cooney, higgins, boyd, guido, griff, cross, picken, ward, wallis

key position: Lake, Williams, Hudson, Roughead, Jones, Hall

pure flankers: morris, gilbee, grant, wood, murphy, hargrave, everitt

backup: minson, reid, libba

Guys in bold need to be played into form. may mean we drop games earlier in the year, but we will make up for it later in the year and coming into finals.

Backup guys get their chance through injury or outstanding form.

I dont know if collingwoods midfielders are all that quick collectively, but they are certainly energetic. I think the pies have turned the notion on its head that you have to have a team of endurance runners -- its hard to train for endurance and power at the same time.

Pies model helps guys like Gia who doesnt have a big tank but is a very good ball user, and guys like griffen and coon to utilize their burst capability which must be difficult to do when tired. Also taking regular breaks probably helps concentration for those players who tend to go missing.

Need to arrange subs so that our inside midfielders have good ball users around them at all times.

Would like to see Picken utilize his pace by developing an offensive side to his game and Boyd to minimise his deficiencies in much the same way cross has done by developing more of a defensive game.

One thing Collingwood do is they don't have pure flankers, these guys all get rotated through the midfield.

[stefoid]

Re: 2011 - What we need to win a Premiership

^^^ Fair summary stefoid. I disagree on Everitt (intensity issues) and don't think Libba (and probably not Wallis) will be ready for a major impact next year, but the overall sentiment is something we need to implement.
I'd be hoping Reid graduates from back-up to legitimate midfield option, DFA pretty close to best 22 next year as well after his late-season run.

Swap Wallis and Reid if you will, but (by all accounts), Wallis brings to the side elite decision making and disposal, and thats something we sorely need. If he has the fitness base, I have no problem fast tracking him in much the same manner as we did Ward, who I initially thought was brought in too early - he played some howlers in his first 10 games.

I cant get a handle on Everitt, but I do know that when Hargrave, Hall, Lake and Morris are starting to fade, we will be gald he is around. Would we be in a better or worse position today if Everitt had played every game Hahn played this year?