Is The Beard in trouble?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

I do like the way you think BJ.

[EasternWest]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

Surely with both Hall and Hudson getting on in years, we need to give them rest periods.
I would advocate 1 week off in 4 for both of them.

I see an easy rotation using Minson and Roughead with one of the four out of the senior line-up each week.

When Hall is rested, Roughead becomes the marking target, but backs up Minson/Hudson when Hall plays. It would not only help Hall and Hudson get through the season, but would also take some pressure off Roughy's shoulders as his body develops. It would also help develop the extra dimension of Roughy as a forward.

The idea is sound, but it's too hard to put into practice. What if our best ruckman is scheduled for a rest when we come up against a team with two great rucks? Or even a lower side who is enjoying a purple patch and we need our best team on the park?

I like the idea of resting, but it's going to have to be on an as needs basis.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

The idea is sound, but it's too hard to put into practice. What if our best ruckman is scheduled for a rest when we come up against a team with two great rucks? Or even a lower side who is enjoying a purple patch and we need our best team on the park?

I like the idea of resting, but it's going to have to be on an as needs basis.

This.

We definitely need to manage Hudson (and Hall) better than we have in recent years. Rather than waiting until they feel sore, giving them a week off in the early-mid part of the year might help. Hudson more so than Hall, as I feel 2/3 years Huddo has been a little burnt out in finals. Missing around 4 games (or so) would be beneficial to his body.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

The idea is sound, but it's too hard to put into practice. What if our best ruckman is scheduled for a rest when we come up against a team with two great rucks? Or even a lower side who is enjoying a purple patch and we need our best team on the park?

I like the idea of resting, but it's going to have to be on an as needs basis.

I don't see it as hard to put into practice at all.

Realistically, prior to 2010 Minson was pretty close to Hudson. If you factor in the interruptions Will had you can overlook 2010.

I recall Hudson being rested in round 22 for 2008 and 2009 and Minson did an admirable job on both occasions.

Obviously if one of the four has a genuine injury he rests, but the others become interchangeable REGARDLESS of the opposition. If we are to be a genuine contender we need to be able to cover a player of that standard and if we enforce it through the h&a the finals spots simply go to the best performers.

[EasternWest]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

I don't see it as hard to put into practice at all.
Realistically, prior to 2010 Minson was pretty close to Hudson. If you factor in the interruptions Will had you can overlook 2010.

I recall Hudson being rested in round 22 for 2008 and 2009 and Minson did an admirable job on both occasions.

Obviously if one of the four has a genuine injury he rests, but the others become interchangeable REGARDLESS of the opposition. If we are to be a genuine contender we need to be able to cover a player of that standard and if we enforce it through the h&a the finals spots simply go to the best performers.

No the idea isn't hard to put into practice, but scheduled breaks I don't think are feasible.

[mjp]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

Realistically, prior to 2010 Minson was pretty close to Hudson.

Huh?

Do you mean they have lockers close to one another? Or that they were great mates? If you are talking about their performances on the field, well, no. It wasn't close - whilst Hudson was winning stoppages Minson was dropping marks down at full-forward.

I cannot understand how the impact of Hudson on our clearance play over the past couple of seasons is so easily dismissed...before he arrived we were a woeful stoppages team. We have been amongst the best in the league since he got here.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

And Ben is coming off All-Australian form (if the selectors weren't so media-blinkered).

We can schedule breaks based on best-case scenario when the fixture comes out, with the proviso that it is a flexible schedule. Bulldog Joe makes a good point mainly in saying that we REALLY need to get breaks into the older guys, which Rocket has promised for two seasons now but has rarely practiced. In that sense, advance planning seems to be a prudent way to try to ensure that it happens.

[Sedat]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

I cannot understand how the impact of Hudson on our clearance play over the past couple of seasons is so easily dismissed...before he arrived we were a woeful stoppages team. We have been amongst the best in the league since he got here.

This.

We were bottom 2 for clearances and contested possessions when we had the lamp post as our ruckman, and the minute Huddo came to the club we have been in the top 3-4 clubs in the competition in both key stastical measurements. Put simply Huddo has been a massive influence in transforming us from a bottom 4 club (that was inept at the stoppages) to a top 4 club the last 3 years running.

I sincerely hope the beard isn't in trouble yet because he has been a vitally important part of our team for the last 3 years. He is basically an older Mumford, who I believe will be the best ruckman in the competition within the next 2 years. I love the ruckmen that bash into their opponents and then work their arse off at ground level to block for their teammates or win the contested possession themselves. The tall mobile ruckmen that racks up the stats across half back are very overrated IMO. Why would you want your lumbering big blokes to get it 25 times when your mids can actually run with it and cause much more damage? These types are good for nothing but Super Coach IMO.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

If the Beard is in trouble than anywhere near 30 is in trouble. Of course his career can go into decline quickly but that's the same with so many players. I think his game is less reliant the things you lose with old age than anyone else on the list.

I have been a strong advocate of the modern game only allowing for one pure ruckman but that's all Hudson needs. He is an absolute gun at the moment and miles ahead of Will in the role.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

Huh?

Do you mean they have lockers close to one another? Or that they were great mates? If you are talking about their performances on the field, well, no. It wasn't close - whilst Hudson was winning stoppages Minson was dropping marks down at full-forward.

I cannot understand how the impact of Hudson on our clearance play over the past couple of seasons is so easily dismissed...before he arrived we were a woeful stoppages team. We have been amongst the best in the league since he got here.

mjp I believe you are being harsh on Will.

Minson debuted in 2004 and was a very good ruckman in 2005 in his second year including a match winning performance against Brisbane.

In 2006 and 2007 he had injury interruptions (broken leg in 2007)

He has played as second ruck behind Hudson through 08 and 09 playing 25 games in both years. He also took over the No 1 role successfully when Hudson missed. As a team we lost little when Minson was rucking.

2010 was a disaster for Will and it actually started in the 09 finals when he suffered a broken toe, followed by the Soy Milk saga combining to destroy his pre-season. When he was back and playing well he suffered a pretty serious ankle injury (Hawthorn game).

While this was happening to Will, Hudson produced his best ever season. I think this gives a false sense of their relative merits.

If the next pre-season for Will is uninterrupted I think you will see him perform at a good standard, wherever he plays.

[mjp]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

mjp I believe you are being harsh on Will.

Maybe. I am certainly very tired of his on-ground tough man antics that never seem to be backed up by either effort or output.

Minson debuted in 2004 and was a very good ruckman in 2005 in his second year including a match winning performance against Brisbane.

Hmmm. A VERY good ruckman? I don't think so. He was a very good ruckman for a second year player, but let's not get too carried away. We saw isolated flashes of what he could be - the Brisbane game (Chris Grant's 300th I reckon) was a good example, but are we crediting him or Cooney - or Darcy! - with the match winning aspect of that one?

In 2006 and 2007 he had injury interruptions (broken leg in 2007)

Acknowledged.

He has played as second ruck behind Hudson through 08 and 09 playing 25 games in both years. He also took over the No 1 role successfully when Hudson missed. As a team we lost little when Minson was rucking.

Strongly disagree that we lost nothing when Hudson was out. We certainly didn't miss having Will dropping marks in the forward line.

2010 was a disaster for Will and it actually started in the 09 finals when he suffered a broken toe, followed by the Soy Milk saga combining to destroy his pre-season. When he was back and playing well he suffered a pretty serious ankle injury (Hawthorn game).

While this was happening to Will, Hudson produced his best ever season. I think this gives a false sense of their relative merits.

Agree with most of that...except the part where Minson never really took hold of games at VFL level. Interrupted pre-season or not, he should be dominating second tier footy and he simply isn't.

If the next pre-season for Will is uninterrupted I think you will see him perform at a good standard, wherever he plays.

For his sake I hope so, but I just haven't seen any compelling evidence that this will happen. He does not work hard to provide a marking target, his release by hand is slow and often mis-directed and he regularly gives away dumb free-kicks that should have been out of his game by u16's.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

With Jacobs, Blake, West, and others on the market, not a good time to be trading a ruckmam, his value would decrease, supply/demand.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

Strongly disagree that we lost nothing when Hudson was out. We certainly didn't miss having Will dropping marks in the forward line.

I think that Minson's biggest perception problem. As a forward he is bone fide poo. As a forward Hudson is double bone fide poo so Minson has to do it. I wonder if our perceptions would change if it was Hudson playing deep forward dropping marks instead?

Agree with most of that...except the part where Minson never really took hold of games at VFL level. Interrupted pre-season or not, he should be dominating second tier footy and he simply isn't.

He simply is. Will was really very good for Willi including a couple of games that were beauties.

If Hudson and Roughead keep him out next year Minson will win the Liston.

[Raw Toast]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

Huh?I cannot understand how the impact of Hudson on our clearance play over the past couple of seasons is so easily dismissed...before he arrived we were a woeful stoppages team. We have been amongst the best in the league since he got here.

And Ben is coming off All-Australian form (if the selectors weren't so media-blinkered).

Agree with both these. Hudson was in the best few rucks this year. We as a club know it, so it doesn't matter as much that the rest of the footy world doesn't seem to. But our supporters should be recognising him as the incredibly important player he is.

I think that Minson's biggest perception problem. As a forward he is bone fide poo. As a forward Hudson is double bone fide poo so Minson has to do it. I wonder if our perceptions would change if it was Hudson playing deep forward dropping marks instead?

Will was really very good for Willi including a couple of games that were beauties.

If Hudson and Roughead keep him out next year Minson will win the Liston.

Excellent post imo. While Hudson has been great, Minson is seriously undervalued. He's had a bad run and makes some appalling mistakes at times. But he's likely to be coming into his prime in the next few years and while Roughead will likely challenge him again next year he's done enough to indicate that he still has a pretty significant upside and I wouldn't be thinking of trading him unless the deal was very heavily weighted in our favour.

[Missing-Dog]

Re: Is The Beard in trouble?

I read the title and though that someone had shaved it off on Mad Monday.

It's listed by the National Trust, so anyone even suspected of shaving it off could go away for a very long time.