Delistings?

[BulldogBelle]

Re: Delistings?

RE: Hahn

We would be better of recruiting a 'spare parts' player in a Leigh Brown mould rather than keeping Hahn. One that's younger and more mobile. Someone who doesnt cost us anything.

In the forwardline, Roughead, Jones and possibly Cordy, Minson or Reid could play Mitch's 2010 role far better than what he could in 2012.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Delistings?

Wouldn't even think about Neagle. The Titanic still has a better turning circle.

[Desipura]

Re: Delistings?

I was waiting for someone to say, I would rather Rowan Atkinson.

[wend1604]

Re: Delistings?

According to an AFL website article posted on Friday 5 November, both Daniels and Rose are gone. The article lists Panos and Prato as our only rookies.

Patrick Rose has signed with VFL club Port Melbourne according to their website.

[Sedat]

Re: Delistings?

I was waiting for someone to say, I would rather Rowan Atkinson.

I would, and I reckon Merv Neagle would have better athleticsm than Jay even today

Jarrod Atkinson would only be considered by the Dogs under the little-known "have a great game against one team, do stuff-all against anyone else, but then get picked up by that team" rule, otherwise known as the 'Daniel Bandy' rule. Josh Gibson was also picked up by the Hawks with this rule.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Delistings?

Harsh. Very harsh. I agree that his days are done, but he deserves better than to be given this moniker (even if it's intent is accurate).

Aaron Fiora. There's a list clogger of the highest order.

True, he was a wonderful servant of the club. But the fact is if we keep him on and he doesn't play afl much next year then he is a list clogger.

Mitch has shown that he isn't much of a backman, and we now have 2x young forwards who now have priority over Mitch in the forward line. Mitch also struggles in that role since Barry has become the focal point, so what purpose will it serve to have him in the squad?.
It could only be in case of a severe emergency where Barry and maybe 1 of those forwards weren't available. If this is the case i'd rather try another option to give them experience.

Unfortunately Mitch's career was always going to end like this what with his style of game.
He's not someone you can hide on a back flank in his twilight years unfortunately.

[Mofra]

Re: Delistings?

Mitch has shown that he isn't much of a backman, and we now have 2x young forwards who now have priority over Mitch in the forward line. Mitch also struggles in that role since Barry has become the focal point, so what purpose will it serve to have him in the squad?.

With all due respect to Mitch, there are more than 2 youngsters in front of him, as well as two oldies.
Hall & Gia aside (senior players, 1 & 2 on the goal tally) we have:

Hill - 5th on the goal kicking list, 2nd on goal ave, 6th in tackles
Grant - Breakout year, 3rd on the goal kicking list
Higgins - Ahead of Hhan in goals despite playing 2 games less
Jones - Set to be a permanent fixture this year, splits the tall defenders. Better goal ave than Mitch.

That's 6 right there before we consider Roughy will rest there, a resting mid may take up a spot, Veszpremi will get games, Djerkurra and Hooper may get games. Heck, even Stack was ahead of Hahn on average goals and I don't rate him at all.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Delistings?

With all due respect to Mitch, there are more than 2 youngsters in front of him, as well as two oldies.
Hall & Gia aside (senior players, 1 & 2 on the goal tally) we have:

Hill - 5th on the goal kicking list, 2nd on goal ave, 6th in tackles
Grant - Breakout year, 3rd on the goal kicking list
Higgins - Ahead of Hhan in goals despite playing 2 games less
Jones - Set to be a permanent fixture this year, splits the tall defenders. Better goal ave than Mitch.

That's 6 right there before we consider Roughy will rest there, a resting mid may take up a spot, Veszpremi will get games, Djerkurra and Hooper may get games. Heck, even Stack was ahead of Hahn on average goals and I don't rate him at all.

Why are you looking at goals? Hill kicks a lot of goals, doesn't stop him from being useless. Hahn had a different role with Barry in the forwardline. He was never asked to kick bags. There's probably less pressure on Mitch to kick goals than there is on Cooney or Griffen.

He is still ahead of Hill, Grant and Jones. That may change in 2011 (I hope it does), but let's not kid ourselves, Grant was just a contributor in most the games he played and as for Jones, despite showing oodles of energy and effort, he was clearly out of his depth.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Delistings?

We are too soft.

As Dog House says, do we want to get games into our younger players to put us in a position to get past a PF?

The other option is to be soft and keep players like Mitch on our list because he has been a "loyal servant". However, this doesnt do anything for advancing the future of the club.

I want us to actually win a premiership and not "just" make the finals series and be everybody's second team because we are good blokes or because they feel sorry for us due to our lack of success.

The situation that has arisen with Hahn is not all that dis- similar with other senior players who have been selected at different stages during the 2010 season, even though their form didn't justify it, for example players such as Minson, Gia, Gilbee and Hahn. There was a reluctance to persevere with young talent in Jones and Roughead. Our lack of depth
also proved a problem due in the main to poor recruiting.

[Mofra]

Re: Delistings?

Why are you looking at goals? Hill kicks a lot of goals, doesn't stop him from being useless.

Call me old fasioned, but I tend to prefer it if we kick more goals than the opposition. Goals are actually a good thing.

Hahn had a different role with Barry in the forwardline. He was never asked to kick bags. There's probably less pressure on Mitch to kick goals than there is on Cooney or Griffen.

What role was that? If you're a forward I would hope that goals, assists, marks, tackles and defensive pressure by running/blocking space are important. Hahn dropped off markedly during the year, to the degree that his spot in the team is questioned.

Given he will arguably play as a "5th tall" at times next year with Hall, Grant, Jones & Roughead resting forward I'm not sure the role we need in 2011 is the same as the beginning of 2010, when Roughy & Jones had yet to debut, the interchange rule was different, and Grant was noweher near the best 22.

He is still ahead of Hill, Grant and Jones. That may change in 2011 (I hope it does), but let's not kid ourselves, Grant was just a contributor in most the games he played and as for Jones, despite showing oodles of energy and effort, he was clearly out of his depth.

I don't believe Jones looked out of his depth - raw perhaps, but his work with Hall was more than encouraging, he offered defensive pressure, chased, took a legitimate no 2 tall defender and all this a year after playing majority school football. Jones almost overtook Hahn in 2010, and given the pace issues with Hahn I'd expect Jones to be ahead of him by the end of the pre season.

Grant behind Hahn? Can't say I agree, and certainly don't think Hahn would be selected over Grant come around 1 2011.

Hill has one more year to prove he can become a member of our best 22, but if I was to pick one of them to stay on our list for next year, I'd say Hill.

Hahn has been a fantastic servant for us but to think he's suddenly going to gain enough pace to play the modern game, or the game will slow down enough for him with the interchange rule, is folly. He finished last year in defence - what does that say about his credentials as a forward?

[LostDoggy]

Re: Delistings?

I appreciate your loyalty to a favourite player, Scorlibo, but really...

Hahn had a different role with Barry in the forwardline.

Yes, it's called redundant. Let's not forget that we took a first game player into a semi final in an attempt to find someone (hell anyone) capable of adding defensive pressure to our forward line.

He was never asked to kick bags.

True, but he was asked to influence the game. Thirteen possessions to Hahn were once as valuable as twenty six to a midfielder. This year he played far too many games in which he had no influence at all.

He is still ahead of Hill, Grant and Jones.

He most certainly is not ahead of Grant and Jones.

let's not kid ourselves

My thoughts exactly.

Grant was just a contributor in most the games he played

Grant was better than that. Nevertheless, he 'contributed' much more than Hahn this year. Mitch contributed very little.

as for Jones, despite showing oodles of energy and effort

At least he showed oodles of energy and effort. Mitch looked stuck in the mud all year.

he was clearly out of his depth.

Sadly, it is Hahn who is now out of his depth. An excellent contributor and a great clubman; but the game has passed him by.

His body cannot cope with the speed of the modern game, and he can't impose himself on a match when he can't get from contest to contest. The match committee is as loyal to him as you are, Scorlibo. He played nineteen games this year when his form warranted eight or nine, meaning he took games away from young players who would have benefited from the senior experience. If he remains on our list next year the same thing will happen. It's time for him to go.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Delistings?

He is still ahead of Hill, Grant and Jones.

Wow. If Jonesey and Grant looked 'out of their depth' at times, Mitch just looked sad in most of the games he played. If getting towelled up in every position he played by certified hacks isn't 'out of his depth', I don't know what is. His only value that I saw was in cameos in the wet, when his lack of pace wasn't such a massive liability.

No way Mitch should be ahead of Hill -- we are talking about a bloke we wanted a 1st round pick for to trade to the Hawks, and a guy who may or may not be worth the last spot on the list. If Mitch played instead of Josh in finals last year, that says more about Josh's attitude, and the conservatism of our match committee, than their respective current value to an AFL team. Hawthorn offered a couple of middling picks for Hill. Ask them what they would have offered for Mitch.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Delistings?

Why are you looking at goals? Hill kicks a lot of goals, doesn't stop him from being useless. Hahn had a different role with Barry in the forwardline. He was never asked to kick bags. There's probably less pressure on Mitch to kick goals than there is on Cooney or Griffen.

He is still ahead of Hill, Grant and Jones. That may change in 2011 (I hope it does), but let's not kid ourselves, Grant was just a contributor in most the games he played and as for Jones, despite showing oodles of energy and effort, he was clearly out of his depth.

Mate, you haven't seen a game in 2010!
Those players besides possibly Hill are ahead of Mitch and all have more upside than Mitch.
Mitch ended up playing on a half back basically because we had Morris out and he couldn't get near it on the forward line!
We all love Mitch and his selfless style but unfortunately it takes a huge toll on the body.

[Scorlibo]

Re: Delistings?

Just offering the other end of the argument. Hahn's value has been beaten down significantly on this forum. If you rate Hahn's season and value so lowly I can't imagine what you must think of the MC who gave him 20 odd games this year. Just saying that if it was as clear-cut as everyone here is making out there wouldn't be a decision to be made, he would already be gone!

On current form he is definitely ahead of Hill and Jones. He is probably ahead of Grant, despite Grant closing fast. Don't get me wrong, I think Grant will be a star and I have great faith in Jones from what we saw this year, but there is the youth rule to be applied. The question to be asked is whether they will go past Hahn next year, whether Hill can muster up enough of the correct attitude to look like anything more than an uninterested ragdoll who feeds off others' good work, and whether after this we still have enough forward talent to last us the year.

Mitch is not one of my 'favourite' players. I am actually of the view that he should go, but it pains me to see such a one sided set of views when clearly he deserves more consideration than he is being afforded.

[EasternWest]

Re: Delistings?

Just offering the other end of the argument. Hahn's value has been beaten down significantly on this forum. If you rate Hahn's season and value so lowly I can't imagine what you must think of the MC who gave him 20 odd games this year. Just saying that if it was as clear-cut as everyone here is making out there wouldn't be a decision to be made, he would already be gone!

On current form he is definitely ahead of Hill and Jones. He is probably ahead of Grant, despite Grant closing fast. Don't get me wrong, I think Grant will be a star and I have great faith in Jones from what we saw this year, but there is the youth rule to be applied. The question to be asked is whether they will go past Hahn next year, whether Hill can muster up enough of the correct attitude to look like anything more than an uninterested ragdoll who feeds off others' good work, and whether after this we still have enough forward talent to last us the year.

Mitch is not one of my 'favourite' players. I am actually of the view that he should go, but it pains me to see such a one sided set of views when clearly he deserves more consideration than he is being afforded.

I'm not sure that he does.

I appreciate your even handed post, but for me, if we play Mitch next year, we are going backwards.

I think our match committee can be too conservative with their selections, but they're a lot closer to who's in what shape etc than I'll ever be, so that's the way it is.

But for all Hahn has given us, I can't see the value in keeping him on. He shouldn't play AFL, and he's taking a younger guys spot at Willy. So where will that leave him, and us, if we retain him?

It's a cutthroat game, and it pains me to say that the curtain should be closed on Mitch's career, but it should. Don't hate me Mitch, I still love you.