Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

[EasternWest]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Of the lack of flexibility they provide.

Just think when we are getting down to picking our bench players we need guys who can multiple positions and at this stage I see these 2 as only midfielders.

Yep that's what I thought you'd say. Fair enough too.

[mjp]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Would lack of pace be an issue?

Maybe, but is he that much slower than the other options?

I am more concerned about the loss of his goal-kicking / goal assists than his pace...but having another good user of the footy behind the ball appeals to me. With Gia and Murphy both playing back opposition zones would be less of a stress...

[Bornadog]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Maybe, but is he that much slower than the other options?

I am more concerned about the loss of his goal-kicking / goal assists than his pace...but having another good user of the footy behind the ball appeals to me. With Gia and Murphy both playing back opposition zones would be less of a stress...

Number one for goal assists in AFL for 2010. I would leave him in the forward line.

[Desipura]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Number one for goal assists in AFL for 2010. I would leave him in the forward line.

Last 3 prelim's:
Gia
2010 prelim 11 possies 1 goal, 1 tackle
2009 prelim 16 possies 1 goal, 5 tackles
2008 prelim 24 possies 0 goals, 2 tackles

Gilbee
2010 prelim 17 possies, 1 tackles
2009 prelim 18 possies 3 tackles
2008 prelim 25 possies, 2 tackles

Murphy
2010 prelim 10 possies, 0 goals
2009 prelim 16 possies, (9 marks) 0 goals
2008 prelim 23 possies (16 marks) 0 goals

[Greystache]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Maybe, but is he that much slower than the other options?

I am more concerned about the loss of his goal-kicking / goal assists than his pace...but having another good user of the footy behind the ball appeals to me. With Gia and Murphy both playing back opposition zones would be less of a stress...

It's an interesting thought MJP, and one I hadn't considered. With the loss of Harbrow and concerns over Gilbee, could Giansiracus be a good option as the 7th defender? It would eliminate the concern over his pace being exposed by quick forwards, and his ball use is in the top couple at the club. It may also reduce the amount of time he spends in games out of the play.

[Mofra]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

It's an interesting thought MJP, and one I hadn't considered. With the loss of Harbrow and concerns over Gilbee, could Giansiracus be a good option as the 7th defender? It would eliminate the concern over his pace being exposed by quick forwards, and his ball use is in the top couple at the club. It may also reduce the amount of time he spends in games out of the play.

He was also 2nd on our goalkicking list last year, although one would hope a genuine FT forward (like Grant) overtakes him.

Given he is one of our better gut runners though, does that mean we start rotating players through our backline? I'd worry that our structure could lapse at times if we rotate through too heavily.

[Greystache]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

He was also 2nd on our goalkicking list last year, although one would hope a genuine FT forward (like Grant) overtakes him.

Given he is one of our better gut runners though, does that mean we start rotating players through our backline? I'd worry that our structure could lapse at times if we rotate through too heavily.

He's a strong gut runner but he doesn't necessarily use that to be in the play as well as he could. He finds the ball really well in the midfield but we're loath to use him there because he's another player lacking pace in an area we're already weak in. The more I think about it the more I think he could be really damaging in the Maxwell/Gilbert sort of role.

[Maddog37]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Being that both Wallis and Lbba have been identified for some time and been involved with the club, is it reasonable to expect them to be further along than a first year recruit would be?

After a few games under their belt to get used to the pace and intensity i would hope they improve very quickly.

That would be a massive bonus for the team IMO both short and long term.

Boyd, Cross, Cooney, Griffin, Ward, Picken, Higgins, DJ, Gia, Libba, Wallis, Sherman, Addison, Moles, Reid.

15 Midfielders, all of pretty reasonable quality.

[Bornadog]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Last 3 prelim's:
Gia
2010 prelim 11 possies 1 goal, 1 tackle
2009 prelim 16 possies 1 goal, 5 tackles
2008 prelim 24 possies 0 goals, 2 tackles

Gilbee
2010 prelim 17 possies, 1 tackles
2009 prelim 18 possies 3 tackles
2008 prelim 25 possies, 2 tackles

Murphy
2010 prelim 10 possies, 0 goals
2009 prelim 16 possies, (9 marks) 0 goals
2008 prelim 23 possies (16 marks) 0 goals

Your Point?

[Desipura]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Your Point?

Stats don't always paint a true picture. Whilst Murphs stats look good, he butchered the ball the night he took 9 marks againt the Saints. The stats also do not highlight how Gilbs and Gia froze when given a relatively easy shot at goal by their standards.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Stats don't always paint a true picture. Whilst Murphs stats look good, he butchered the ball the night he took 9 marks againt the Saints. The stats also do not highlight how Gilbs and Gia froze when given a relatively easy shot at goal by their standards.

You gotta be in it to win it. You could easily take the opposite view that its better to have had the pill and a chance than no chance at all. Granted, Stats often overlook lots of things.

[Bornadog]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Stats don't always paint a true picture. Whilst Murphs stats look good, he butchered the ball the night he took 9 marks againt the Saints. The stats also do not highlight how Gilbs and Gia froze when given a relatively easy shot at goal by their standards.

Gia number one for goal asists for the whole of 2010 out of 600 players. Not a bad stat at all.

[Desipura]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

Gia number one for goal asists for the whole of 2010 out of 600 players. Not a bad stat at all.

A very good stat, I never bag Gia at the footy and clap and aknowledge when he or any other bulldog do something during a game or play a good game (in Gia's case there were a few really good ones). I stood up and clapped when he backed into a pack against Archer at the MCG a few years back, that would have silenced some who questioned his courage.

Murphy is one of my favourites and Johnno was my favourite.
The facts are Murphy, Gilbee and Gia froze at crucial times of a game. Johnno also did not have the best finals record.
You can pull out all the stats you like, it does not change the end result, another lost prelim.


Great to see Libba in the side for his first game!

[Bornadog]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

A very good stat, I never bag Gia at the footy and clap and aknowledge when he or any other bulldog do something during a game or play a good game (in Gia's case there were a few really good ones). I stood up and clapped when he backed into a pack against Archer at the MCG a few years back, that would have silenced some who questioned his courage.

Murphy is one of my favourites and Johnno was my favourite.
The facts are Murphy, Gilbee and Gia froze at crucial times of a game. Johnno also did not have the best finals record.
You can pull out all the stats you like, it does not change the end result, another lost prelim.


Great to see Libba in the side for his first game!

Yep they are only human, but you can't judge their whole career based on a couple of failed performances in finals. Not saying you do, some others do.

Lets hope we can go all the way this year.

Note: BTW, the stat on Gia was in answer to a post about him playing in the back pocket and I responded with the stat on goal assists. Nothing to do with finals.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Tom Liberatore and Mitch Wallis push for Dogs' debut

A very good stat, I never bag Gia at the footy and clap and aknowledge when he or any other bulldog do something during a game or play a good game (in Gia's case there were a few really good ones). I stood up and clapped when he backed into a pack against Archer at the MCG a few years back, that would have silenced some who questioned his courage.

Murphy is one of my favourites and Johnno was my favourite.
The facts are Murphy, Gilbee and Gia froze at crucial times of a game. Johnno also did not have the best finals record.
You can pull out all the stats you like, it does not change the end result, another lost prelim.


Great to see Libba in the side for his first game!

Murphy, Gilbee, Gia and Johnno's poor record in finals, whilst surely not good, cannot be listed as the sole reason we lost another prelim.

No Cooney. Lake on his last legs. Morris' back. Tired, limping as far as they could, there was never much hope and they did well to get where they did.

Blaming it on four blokes is a bit short-sighted.