So where are we at?

[LostDoggy]

Re: So where are we at?

His form at Williamstown and on the training track is a fairly good indication. I get where you are coming from but the match committee did him no favors by selecting him.

I suspect the MC went to him because they are desperate to fix our foward line and he at least brings (or was meant to) forward pressure. He's not ready, but our forward line is filled with not quite readies ATM. We desperately need Grant to show more of his form from late last year, Jones is 2 years away IMO, Roughy could be anything if he gets 1000 hours kicking practice in, and them we throw some bitza's up there each week. Johnno is a desperate loss - the timing of his fade-out is just terrible as we need his fortitude and calming presence up front at the moment. I think we seriousy need to consider faking an injury, bring back Hahn and possibly Murphy to the front third of the ground. I don't disagree with the arguments about the risks to Murphs longevity but its a punt we really need to start considering if we are going to be contenders IMO....

[Ghost Dog]

Re: So where are we at?

I suspect the MC went to him because they are desperate to fix our foward line and he at least brings (or was meant to) forward pressure. He's not ready, but our forward line is filled with not quite readies ATM. We desperately need Grant to show more of his form from late last year, Jones is 2 years away IMO, Roughy could be anything if he gets 1000 hours kicking practice in, and them we throw some bitza's up there each week. Johnno is a desperate loss - the timing of his fade-out is just terrible as we need his fortitude and calming presence up front at the moment. I think we seriousy need to consider faking an injury, bring back Hahn and possibly Murphy to the front third of the ground. I don't disagree with the arguments about the risks to Murphs longevity but its a punt we really need to start considering if we are going to be contenders IMO....

Contenders....
Who, out of those close to the club still think we are contenders this season?

[LostDoggy]

Re: So where are we at?

Contenders....
Who, out of those close to the club still think we are contenders this season?

While the emotional supporter in me is looking for forks to stick in us so I can just write the season off there are still some factors that lead me to think this is premature.

Following a pattern set in the last two years we have had a slowish start to the season. Sadly for us as the competition has improved and we have not had some of the easy wins we have enjoyed in the last two years. We have had two close games that we could have won but didn't, where in previous years we have won some games that we might have dropped. I think we have been preparing with a view to hitting form later in the year and expected to have won more of these close games even though not running at full tilt.

I think while we do not want to deal in excuses our draw has been horrible, a terrible first up loss followed by two very easy wins, then a 16 day break and trip to WA, then a 6 day break to tackle the premiers, then another 6 day break and travel to Canberra. We have had to work with a lot of disruption in our preparation.

Also our injuries have been significant with half of our starting backline out, Wood, Lake, Hargave and Gilbee who is being played up field. Our forward line has consistently missed half of its starting team as well with Higgins, Hall and Gia all missing key games. Key players have played games that they were not fit to play which has also hurt us in Lake and Hall.

Player turnover has also been really high with a higher number of changes then we would normally look to make. We have added new players to the mix in Sherman, Djerkurra, Wallis, Libba, Markovic and Skinner, as well as getting games into players with less then 20games experience in Roughead and Jones. Not only is this a high number of changes but they are mutliple changes in the forward and defensive ends not conducive to creating good team flow.

This is not to say that we do not have our problems. We still seem to be falling off too many tackles especially from front on, and have recorded very few run down tackles compared to some other sides. We have been caught very badly short with finding a more versatile ruck combination and the form of Hudson is a grave concern given he has arguably been well beaten by all of Hillle, Sandilands and Mumford. Our midfiled which has the least best 22 players out has so far struggled to dominate a game like we feel they should. Although in part this may be effected by our ruck troubles.

We also do not seem to have really embraced a new game style, with easy wins showing us moving the ball through the corridor but the last two weeks showing us adopt the Collingwood around the boundary style of football.

Once we get a side that is closer to our best 22 on the park then I think we might be in a better position to judge where we are at. Although at this rate unless our form turns sharply and we play like we did mid way through last year for the rest of the year, we are almost no show of making top four which would require us to lose no more then 2 or 3 more games for the season. I think we can still make 5 or 6 but it has been a long time since a side made the GF from there although Collingwood were a kick away from it in 2007.

[LostDoggy]

Re: So where are we at?

Hi Chef.


So in your view, a % figure of players V coach regarding how much blame you lay regarding our current prediciment

I was talking to a friend of mine about American NFL, where the contract arrangements a la Neil Craig are more the norm. He said, the pressure is a lot less when things go south over there, whereas in AFL, fans get pretty feral on the coach fast.
The constant speculation is a factor they don't have or something along those lines and the players tend to be blamed more than the coach. Not sure...just what he said.

You honestly think Rocket was to blame for our mid game fade out on Sunday?

He's the top man, so yes, it's his fault. Such is the responsibility of command.

For the record, I'm not saying let's sack him yet. But he does need to shoulder the blame. I haven't seen him accept blame for anything in a long time (except the ruck fiasco vs Essendon)

[LostDoggy]

Re: So where are we at?

I think while we do not want to deal in excuses our draw has been horrible, a terrible first up loss followed by two very easy wins, then a 16 day break and trip to WA, then a 6 day break to tackle the premiers, then another 6 day break and travel to Canberra. We have had to work with a lot of disruption in our preparation.

Yeah look I have whinged about our draw before but this one was our fault entirely, I think the $ we gained from selling our home game to Canberra has equated to a cost of four points.

[LostDoggy]

Re: So where are we at?

Absolute crap.

Griffen had 27 disposals on the weekend, and was a lot more effective then Boyd.

I would rather Boyd have 20 disposals, all effective & have an impact on the game.

Who would you have in instead of Boyd if he is so bad, which I think is CRAP

[Bornadog]

Re: So where are we at?

Absolute crap.

Griffen had 27 disposals on the weekend, and was a lot more effective then Boyd.

I would rather Boyd have 20 disposals, all effective & have an impact on the game.

Based on prostats:

Boyd - 30 disposals at 83.3% effective, 5 turnovers

Griffen 27 - at 59.3% - 11 turnovers

[comrade]

Re: So where are we at?

Based on prostats:

Boyd - 30 disposals at 83.3% effective, 5 turnovers

Griffen 27 - at 59.3% - 11 turnovers

There is a difference between effective and damaging.

How does Prostats measure effectiveness and what do they deem a turnover? Is it an errant kick or handball to the opposition, is it a kick to a contest which gets taken away by the other team?

[LostDoggy]

Re: So where are we at?

Contenders....
Who, out of those close to the club still think we are contenders this season?

Just give up then??! I'm not convinced we are cooked just yet. Issues, yes, but if the boys can click over the next 5-6 weeks we can get back into this. Sometimes a little bit of pressure and few losses can make a team harden up. St Kilda were written off in the same way this time last year and just missed a flag......

[Go_Dogs]

Re: So where are we at?

Based on prostats:

Boyd - 30 disposals at 83.3% effective, 5 turnovers

Griffen 27 - at 59.3% - 11 turnovers

The Champion Data stats credit Griff with 81% efficiency and Boyd 67%.

Griff had 19 kicks, 8 handballs and Boyd 18 kicks, 15 handballs.

Interesting discrepancy between the two set of stats

[Bornadog]

Re: So where are we at?

The Champion Data stats credit Griff with 81% efficiency and Boyd 67%.

Griff had 19 kicks, 8 handballs and Boyd 18 kicks, 15 handballs.

Interesting discrepancy between the two set of stats

you had me worried so I went back and checked again, and that is what they are showing.

[Dry Rot]

Re: So where are we at?

Yeah look I have whinged about our draw before but this one was our fault entirely, I think the $ we gained from selling our home game to Canberra has equated to a cost of four points.

Really? How do you explain our recent wins there then?

[mjp]

Re: So where are we at?

I suspect the MC went to him because they are desperate to fix our foward line and he at least brings (or was meant to) forward pressure. He's not ready, but our forward line is filled with not quite readies ATM.

What forward pressure...everyone keeps saying this but based on WHAT evidence?

If it is because he is an indigenous kid who plays forward and the stereotype says he should therefore provide great forward pressure, well....

[comrade]

Re: So where are we at?

What forward pressure...everyone keeps saying this but based on WHAT evidence?

If it is because he is an indigenous kid who plays forward and the stereotype says he should therefore provide great forward pressure, well....

Every Williamstown match review from WOOFers has mentioned his tackling/pressure in the forward line as a stand out of his game.

I think alluding to racial profiling is a bit of a stretch just because he didn't really show off his defensive pressure in his limited 20 minutes of game time.

[mjp]

Re: So where are we at?

Every Williamstown match review from WOOFers has mentioned his tackling/pressure in the forward line as a stand out of his game.

I have now seen him play twice:

- vs Sydney.
- vs Swan Districts.

Zero forward pressure. That is the only sample I have comrade and I only comment based on what I see and not on what I have been told.