Round #12 Match Committee

[chef]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

In
Roughead Cooney Stack Tutt Vez Dahlhaus
Out
Jones Cross Hargrave Hill Grant Higgins

Hopefully we can keep rotating the kids through and work out who's worth keeping and who needs to be chopped.

[Grantysghost]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Calls for Boyd being out are ridiculous. I know he isn't the perfect player but he is the least of our concerns.

Totally agree with this, cant see how we would be better with Boyd out of the side. He generates most of our drive from the middle especially without Cooney.

Hill is done, he cant find a niche forward or back unfortunately and i think he has had his chance now and should remain at Williamstown.
Sherman has never really excelled other than 2 games v Fremantle and Collingwood where he kicked 7, he needs a spell.
Bring in Ves for a run looked ok at Willy, bit worried about his defensive pressure though but we need to see what he's got. Addison in to add some grunt. Could play on a Milne, or as a defensive forward on Goddard/Fisher/Gilbert.

Out : Hill, Sherman
In : Veszpremi, Addison

[Hotdog60]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Boyd is a interesting one, can get plenty of the ball but what he does with it stops him from being a superstar.
Can confidence play such a big part in a players disposal or lack of awareness, at one stage yesterday Boyd got the ball was clear with little pressure and with two guys calling for at centrehalf forward with would have resulted in a unpressured shot at goal he proceeded to drill a pass to a one on three on the flank which result in the turnover and Geelong taking down field.

Rocket had mentioned something about communication, is it a lack of talk to help players find better options, is it when player work to make position and are over looked that causes them to stop presenting, hence the work rate drops off.

I see from my limited view on the small screen that players do present in the corridor yet we fail to spot them up, is it an instruction to go wide or is it a lack of confidence to hit the player in the middle for a fear of turning the ball over.

Sometimes I feel we need to take the risk to make things happen.

[LongWait]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Jones must continue to be played. He doesn't get a lot of the ball in part because his team mates refuse to kick it to him and when they do it is usually not to advantage. Jones' possession count would have been at least doubled and maybe tripled yesterday had he been playing for Geelong.

Boyds' selection as captain was simply stunning in its' stupidity. Yesterday the reasons why Boyd was the wrong choice were clearly on display. If you talk the talk you must be able to walk the talk. Boyd can do the former but not the latter. Ill-disiplined and lacking intent in every defensive aspect of the game. Absolutely diabolical decision-making and disposal efficiency. Racks up posessions and gets a fair bit of hard ball but these attributes (plus having the best steely gaze in the team) do not a captain make.

I hate potting players and don't want to see Boyd humilliated by being dropped to Willi but I really hope the MC at the end of the season realise that Boyd is not part of the solution for us and certainly should not be captain next year.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Though Boyd may be spraying his kicks, he is one the few that actually get the ball. Same goes for Hargrave.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Jones must continue to be played. He doesn't get a lot of the ball in part because his team mates refuse to kick it to him and when they do it is usually not to advantage. Jones' possession count would have been at least doubled and maybe tripled yesterday had he been playing for Geelong.

Boyds' selection as captain was simply stunning in its' stupidity. Yesterday the reasons why Boyd was the wrong choice were clearly on display. If you talk the talk you must be able to walk the talk. Boyd can do the former but not the latter. Ill-disiplined and lacking intent in every defensive aspect of the game. Absolutely diabolical decision-making and disposal efficiency. Racks up posessions and gets a fair bit of hard ball but these attributes (plus having the best steely gaze in the team) do not a captain make.

I hate potting players and don't want to see Boyd humilliated by being dropped to Willi but I really hope the MC at the end of the season realise that Boyd is not part of the solution for us and certainly should not be captain next year.

I've wanted to post a few times about Boyd, but stopped myself. Might have to wait a few days for this funk to wear off, so can be a bit level headed. In short, his performance is confirming my view that Morris should have been captain.
You know more about your leaders during a drubbing like that than you often do during a win. Who stood up for us yesterday? Morris, Griff, Picken, Gia Will had a crack and a few younger players. Out of these, Morris and Griff are the most reliable and Griff doesn't want to be captain.,

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Though Boyd may be spraying his kicks, he is one the few that actually get the ball. Same goes for Hargrave.

That's right.

I think this board has a culture of smashing guys due to higher expectations, especially Boyd and Cross.

Sure, their disposal isn't great but what's easily forgotten is how hard they work to earn it. I never a fan of turning over the ball but I find it a lot more tolerable when a player has actually earned the disposal beforehand.

When it comes to his defensive work, well how much is that Boyd's fault? You would assume you would only give the captaincy to a player who does not consistency ignore core instructions. Boyd has had the lack of defensive pressure on his 'opponent' label put on him for awhile, if this is true and a real issue, Eade and co. don't look great there. I'm actually not trying to smash Eade there because as I've been saying, I think Boyd's deficiencies are overrated here.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Out: Hill, Grant, Shaggy (if suspended)
In: Cooney, Dahlhaus, Vez (if Shaggy/Cooney aren't available), Barlow (if Shaggy and Cooney are out)

Calls for Boyd being out are ridiculous. I know he isn't the perfect player but he is the least of our concerns.

Why not? Cross and Boyd rack up possessions but they butcher half of them. Their possession count shields them from criticism that's just part of the game. You cannot have players who can't kick in the modern game. Watching Cross panic, standing on the 50m line during the second quarter I think, unable to know what to do as he couldn't have a shot on goal was depressing. We cannot progress unless we have a better midfield or a better performing midfield.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

I've wanted to post a few times about Boyd, but stopped myself. Might have to wait a few days for this funk to wear off, so can be a bit level headed. In short, his performance is confirming my view that Morris should have been captain.
You know more about your leaders during a drubbing like that than you often do during a win. Who stood up for us yesterday? Morris, Griff, Picken, Gia Will had a crack and a few younger players. Out of these, Morris and Griff are the most reliable and Griff doesn't want to be captain.,

I want/wanted Morris but he seems a bit of an introvert.

My main issue with Boyd isn't his disposal as I think that's largely out of his control (could try to not kill worms at times though), it's his 'accountability. Thing is, he has been doing it for awhile (at least according to WOOF critics) but it surely isn't a core issue with Eade and co. otherwise why would they pick him as captain?

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Why not? Cross and Boyd rack up possessions but they butcher half of them. Their possession count shields them from criticism that's just part of the game. You cannot have players who can't kick in the modern game. Watching Cross panic, standing on the 50m line during the second quarter I think, unable to know what to do as he couldn't have a shot on goal was depressing. We cannot progress unless we have a better midfield or a better performing midfield.

You also need to win the ball in the traditional, modern and post modern game.

Dropping Boyd in pursuit of a 'better' midfield reeks of misplaced aspiration that is in reality utter desperation. Over the last couple of weeks, Eade has gone down the path of dropping a senior player or two and introducing a debutant. I think he has handled it very well. Our fans keep demanding we clear the decks and bring in the kids. It has to be gradual, one in, one out per week is actually quite rapid really. The worst thing to do with the development of youth is never playing them. The next worst thing is playing too many of them.

Boyd reminds me of a wasteful millionaire. At the end of the day he earns it himself and will still have more dough than a frugal pauper (our next best option!). Whatever your thoughts of Boyd, he goes when it's his turn, wins it for his team mates and gives us a physical presence in the engine room.

[Maddog37]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

Drop one of Cross or Boyd and make the other a tagger seems where we need to be. In Libba.

Not sure on Jones. He seemed to handle being dropped well in the past. Maybe swap for Roughy.

Hill and Grant out for Cooney and Tutt/Vez/Dollhouse.

Maybe they brought in Mulligan with an eye for Revolt this week......

[Greystache]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

I want/wanted Morris but he seems a bit of an introvert.

My main issue with Boyd isn't his disposal as I think that's largely out of his control (could try to not kill worms at times though), it's his 'accountability. Thing is, he has been doing it for awhile (at least according to WOOF critics) but it surely isn't a core issue with Eade and co. otherwise why would they pick him as captain?

It's something a few of us have been disussing for a while. Surely his instructions can't be to just go out and get 30 possessions of varying quality and don't worry about your opponent, even if he gets 38 and kicks 3 goals. I don't believe an experienced coach would be that short sighted, so he must be going against instructions. Eade mentions after nearly every loss that we lost the game because either a) players didn't execute well, or b) players didn't follow instructions. Either way no one ever seems held accountable.

Personally I believe Boyd goes against instructions, so then I can't fathom why we continually ply him with individual awards, and now the captaincy. I think the heart of the problem is that Eade is an attack focussed coach first, second, and third, and defence is something you focus on once everything else is working well. Players like Boyd know that as long as they're racking up offensive stats then their defensive shortcomings will be overlooked. It's created a culture in the team that defensive pressure is the responsibilities of the less established players, and guys like Boyd, Higgins, Cross, Gia,and Hall can pick and choose their level of application.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

I want/wanted Morris but he seems a bit of an introvert.

My main issue with Boyd isn't his disposal as I think that's largely out of his control (could try to not kill worms at times though), it's his 'accountability. Thing is, he has been doing it for awhile (at least according to WOOF critics) but it surely isn't a core issue with Eade and co. otherwise why would they pick him as captain?

I think they felt he was a safe bet. .
He's very far from being our number 1 player. You need your captain to be right up there in your top 3 -4 playing group. Voss, Buckley, Brown.
Make him a sub for a whille to send a message?

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

It's something a few of us have been disussing for a while. Surely his instructions can't be to just go out and get 30 possessions of varying quality and don't worry about your opponent, even if he gets 38 and kicks 3 goals. I don't believe an experienced coach would be that short sighted, so he must be going against instructions. Eade mentions after nearly every loss that we lost the game because either a) players didn't execute well, or b) players didn't follow instructions. Either way no one ever seems held accountable.

Personally I believe Boyd goes against instructions, so then I can't fathom why we continually ply him with individual awards, and now the captaincy. I think the heart of the problem is that Eade is an attack focussed coach first, second, and third, and defence is something you focus on once everything else is working well. Players like Boyd know that as long as they're racking up offensive stats then their defensive shortcomings will be overlooked. It's created a culture in the team that defensive pressure is the responsibilities of the less established players, and guys like Boyd, Higgins, Cross, Gia,and Hall can pick and choose their level of application.

This is really well put.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Round #12 Match Committee

I am not trying to actually attack Boyd or Eade but surely Eade cannot have a big issue with Boyd's style. He must be following his directions at least decently if he has the captaincy. Surely there is no way that you would hand the captaincy to someone who blatantly ignores a core instruction? I don't have an enormous issue with it, just putting it out there for those who seem to think Boyd is at the heart of our problems (which I definitely don't). Boyd's lack of attention towards his opponent is hardly a new phenomenon.

Once again, I think Boyd is too harshly rated. Seems like a lot of fans put him up against the truly elite midfielders and are disappointed whenever he falls short.