Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

Do you think we need a star of the competition to win a flag? I think we need an even balance of very, very good players. The names above don't come along very often. There are 6 Brownlows there.

I think you answered your own question there -- all those Browlows (minus Coons) have been involved in flags in the last 5 years. Geelong also had Gablett (another Brownlow) and Bartel (Brownlow), Collingwood have Swan and Pendles, easily two of the top 10 mids in the comp, supported by other guns. Hawthorn won their flag on the back of a star of the comp (Franklin) having a year out of the box. Even Sydney had the aforementioned Goodes and Hall at his peak.

I don't think you're going to find many teams winning a flag without a bunch of genuine elites.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

If we don't have anyone on our list approximating Cooney's devastating run and carry ability, and we will be paying significant overs for anyone with half of Coon's talent (such as Dangerfield), wouldn't it be wiser to invest even more heavily in Cooney's well-being to get him as close to 100% for as much of the remainder of his career as possible? We're talking about a player in his mid 20's, not someone who is about to be shipped off to the glue factory.

Are you assuming that we HAVEN'T been doing everything we can to get Coons right? My assumption is that this is as good as it gets -- when it comes to degenerative injuries it doesn't really matter how old you are.

[Doc26]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

If we don't have anyone on our list approximating Cooney's devastating run and carry ability, and we will be paying significant overs for anyone with half of Coon's talent (such as Dangerfield), wouldn't it be wiser to invest even more heavily in Cooney's well-being to get him as close to 100% for as much of the remainder of his career as possible? We're talking about a player in his mid 20's, not someone who is about to be shipped off to the glue factory.

Yes lets do what it takes to manage Cooney through, I'm expecting we're doing this and will need to continue for the remainder of his career. To do this will mean we can't rely on him to win us games and as such will need to bolster our outside mids.

We're currently paying overs for Lake placid who by accounts is unhappy and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see his name active in trade week. Of course who will be prepared to wear his current package based on the doubt on him will be at the forefront of any possible discussion. The Lake story of 2011 has been a debarcle. Right now I'm so disillusioned by him that I'd see him go if we could work something in our favour.

[Greystache]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

This.

Although Dangerfield has the goods. Why has Craig been playing him out of FF?

Because Dangerfield cant find the ball more than 15 times or so in the midfield, he wins some contested ball, but he can't get it on the outside to use his run. He's at a crossroad in his career IMO to see if he can improve his skillset and become a good player, or if he's going to be stuck being a player who can do some nice things but just an average player overall.

Roughead. Adelaide's big man stocks are all over the place. We look at Roughead and hope Cordy comes on to help out Will.

Absolutely not, nothing we've seen has shown us Cordy will be a viable AFL ruckman, both ability and body wise. Hudson looks cooked, Minson is hardly a star, and if injury strikes our back up would be Jones or Prato. No thanks.

[Greystache]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

Higgins.

Agree, especially with his perceived value being high this year. He's a slow unaccountable forward, a nice user of the ball who won't man up in defence, too injury prone and unfit to play in the midfield, and he avoids body contact wherever possible. He'd be my first choice.

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

Agree, especially with his perceived value being high this year. He's a slow unaccountable forward, a nice user of the ball who won't man up in defence, too injury prone and unfit to play in the midfield, and he avoids body contact wherever possible. He'd be my first choice.

You have to give something to get something, no use throwing up hasbeens or could have beens.

[1eyedog]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

Agree, especially with his perceived value being high this year. He's a slow unaccountable forward, a nice user of the ball who won't man up in defence, too injury prone and unfit to play in the midfield, and he avoids body contact wherever possible. He'd be my first choice.

The problem is everyone knows it. He would have very little collateral. If you want something handy you've got to give up something handy and Higgins is only handy when the going is good.

Bornadog are you saying Higins is actually worth something?

[Greystache]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

You have to give something to get something, no use throwing up hasbeens or could have beens.

The trick is putting up a could have been that everyone still thinks is a will be.

The problem is everyone knows it. He would have very little collateral. If you want something handy you've got to give up something handy and Higgins is only handy when the going is good.

Bornadog are you saying Higins is actually worth something?

I think his perceived value would still be quite high, the general view is he's been very good since moving to half back.

[Desipura]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

So Greystache we trade Higgins, Lake and retire Hall and Gilbee. Ward may leave to GWS
I would think we should be keeping our senior players in the 22-26 year bracket and try and gain the likes of Dangerfield for one of the first rounders for Ward.
We dont want this to be any bigger rebuild than it is likely to be.

[Maddog37]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

I would be interested in Vince if an opportunity presented itself. He is a good user and still young.

[Sedat]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

Are you assuming that we HAVEN'T been doing everything we can to get Coons right? My assumption is that this is as good as it gets -- when it comes to degenerative injuries it doesn't really matter how old you are.

Definitely not. Having said that, Andrew McLeod had a degenerative knee from about 2002 onwards and managed to stretch out a high quality career for another 8-9 seasons - I'm confident that if we manage Coons right for the rest of his career, he can give us similarly high quality output for another 5-7 seasons. As far as I'm concerned, that is worth more than picking up a Cooney-lite for the cost of a small fortune when we have other pressing holes on our list that we need to fill. Coons and Griff are a powerful duo that will be on our list and providing almost optimum levels of performance until 2016-17 you'd imagine. Let's add to this from within, via the draft.

My key concern (especially so now that Scott Clayton's wise head is no longer at our disposal during trade week) is that we part with too much to plug holes on our list, and what we recerive doesn't plug the holes in any event. Sherman hasn't even managed to reach Eagle levels of run and carry, Vesz isn't the Johnno replacement we hoped for, and DJ hasn't been the inside ball winning presence with the strong defensive intensity either. Meanwhile a player like Walker has become a destructive 3rd forward and is now completely off limits for any clubs when 8 months ago he was worth about the same as a Sherman on the open market. I'm all for smart trading, but it needs to plug holes on our list in the way that Ben Hudson did.

[1eyedog]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

I would be interested in Vince if an opportunity presented itself. He is a good user and still young.

There won't.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

Definitely not. Having said that, Andrew McLeod had a degenerative knee from about 2002 onwards and managed to stretch out a high quality career for another 8-9 seasons - I'm confident that if we manage Coons right for the rest of his career, he can give us similarly high quality output for another 5-7 seasons. As far as I'm concerned, that is worth more than picking up a Cooney-lite for the cost of a small fortune when we have other pressing holes on our list that we need to fill. Coons and Griff are a powerful duo that will be on our list and providing almost optimum levels of performance until 2016-17 you'd imagine. Let's add to this from within, via the draft.

My key concern (especially so now that Scott Clayton's wise head is no longer at our disposal during trade week) is that we part with too much to plug holes on our list, and what we recerive doesn't plug the holes in any event. Sherman hasn't even managed to reach Eagle levels of run and carry, Vesz isn't the Johnno replacement we hoped for, and DJ hasn't been the inside ball winning presence with the strong defensive intensity either. Meanwhile a player like Walker has become a destructive 3rd forward and is now completely off limits for any clubs when 8 months ago he was worth about the same as a Sherman on the open market. I'm all for smart trading, but it needs to plug holes on our list in the way that Ben Hudson did.

Agree with everything you've written -- certainly don't have a heck of a lot of confidence in our performance come trade-time.

McLeod did have to make significant changes to his position and role though, playing mostly off half-back. I take it that you are suggesting that Coons and Griff will continue to plug away in the heat of the battle? That's a recipe for inconsistent output and if we can groom someone else (or pick up early in the draft) to be that elite mid we could go a long way to protecting Coon's career.

I like someone else's suggestion that we play Coons largely in the forward 50 -- his finishing is as good as anyone in the comp, he's a good set-shot, great mark for his size, and his skill level will have him generally outclassing most medium sized defenders. With the lower wear and tear, he will also be able to contribute some pace to our forward press, and his crumbing skills are also pretty darn handy. Of course he can then still take stints in the middle. Maybe a new Johnno in the making?

[Mantis]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

My key concern (especially so now that Scott Clayton's wise head is no longer at our disposal during trade week) is that we part with too much to plug holes on our list, and what we recerive doesn't plug the holes in any event. Sherman hasn't even managed to reach Eagle levels of run and carry, Vesz isn't the Johnno replacement we hoped for, and DJ hasn't been the inside ball winning presence with the strong defensive intensity either. Meanwhile a player like Walker has become a destructive 3rd forward and is now completely off limits for any clubs when 8 months ago he was worth about the same as a Sherman on the open market. I'm all for smart trading, but it needs to plug holes on our list in the way that Ben Hudson did.

Against crabs.

What's his record like against teams that can play??... I will save you the time checking and let you know that it's terrible.

[Desipura]

Re: Game Day 2011 - R18 Western Bulldogs vs Sydney

Against crabs.

What's his record like against teams that can play??... I will save you the time checking and let you know that it's terrible.

He kicked a number of goals on Morris did he not?