Draft:

[GVGjr]

Re: Draft:

Tell me which players play that role who you would have taken with our picks?

It's not really the point of the question I answered.
As I mentioned, we weren't a quick side last season and after draft day, I'm not sure we wanted to address that. Do you think we have addressed a lack of leg speed?

[Mitcha]

Re: Draft:

It's not really the point of the question I answered.
As I mentioned, we weren't a quick side last season and after draft day, I'm not sure we wanted to address that. Do you think we have addressed a lack of leg speed?

It's a bit difficult to address needs when from what I was told there were no quick outside players available after a few in the first ten.

[GVGjr]

Re: Draft:

It's a bit difficult to address needs when from what I was told there were no quick outside players available after a few in the first ten.

I'm surprised you were told that. There were a quite a few quick guys taken after 10 and even after our pick at 17.
Crozier for one is quite quick and very athletic. Murray Newman has terrific pace.

[stefoid]

Re: Draft:

Perhaps we will adopt more of a run in waves, wear the tackles, handball happy geelong style? Maybe our players will be instruct to drop like they have been hamstrung when they feel a tackle and the umps will giv us lots of undeserved head-high frees?

[ledge]

Re: Draft:

Maybe we are going for football nous and not athletes who might be able to play.

[LongWait]

Re: Draft:

It was a strange approach. Based on what I saw last year, the side needed to add pacy players but ignored that and we seemed to have cloned some players we already have.

.

Maybe the club now rates winning your own ball and defensive pressure when we haven't got the ball much higher than how fast you can run.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Draft:

Maybe the club now rates winning your own ball and defensive pressure when we haven't got the ball much higher than how fast you can run.

This statement does not stack up: we would have had one of the slowest lists in the AFL even prior the draft. However, in the three prelim final years we were one of (and statistically) the best contested ball side in the league. We still have the core of that midfield, the only missing piece being a fit Cooney, who provides the quality and pace bursting through the pack.

Pace and defensive pressure aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, some would say that you can't really exert defensive pressure (especially in the front half) without pace, no matter how committed or fit you are. Some of the best defensive forwards are also the paciest small forwards going around (Rioli et al.)

[GVGjr]

Re: Draft:

Maybe the club now rates winning your own ball and defensive pressure when we haven't got the ball much higher than how fast you can run.

Obviously they do otherwise they might have taken a different approach.
You asked for my opinion and I gave a detailed response and now here is a couple for you.
- Were you concerned by our lack of leg speed last year?
- Given our playing list prior to the draft did you place a higher emphasis on winning the contested ball than pace, run and skills?

[The Underdog]

Re: Draft:

Don't exagerate my point and then denigrate it.

Kicking skills and ball-winning skills are not mutually exclusive. The players who will suit the new game plan will still need to be able to effectively dispose of the ball and ensure we keep possession. Unfortunately, execution of a game plan which relies on elite kicking skills under pressure was beyond us and, in fact, resulted in us losing possession too often.

Sorry for being glib but I just don't see how not addressing a lack of skill and pace helps any game plan.I get your point about the problem with the old game plan against pressure but I'd argue that having more poor kicks on the team isn't going to assist greatly when teams are applying strong pressure. I've yet to see any average to poor kicks of the footy who get better under pressure and going forward our midfield will consist of Boyd, Cross, Griffen, (part-time) Cooney, Wallis, Libber, Dahlhaus largely. The pace and skill of that group worries me immensely. And the kicking prowess outside of them isn't flash either.
I'm fully prepared to wait and see what comes around but our deficiencies in these areas are glaring and I can't see them improving greatly given our off season.

[Hotdog60]

Re: Draft:

Will we become handball happy to create space and time for better delivery.

[Dazza]

Re: Draft:

We might have to adopt Sydneys tactics.


* Reasonably happy with the draft. They are all world beaters ATM.

How would you rate Smith against a guy like Sam Reid?

Happy getting Talia although his kicking doesn't look great. Seems like a natural defender though and better backup than Mulligan at the very worst.

The others I'm not sure how I feel about. Apparently this was a weak draft so my expectations for late picks aren't too high.

[chef]

Re: Draft:

Sorry for being glib but I just don't see how not addressing a lack of skill and pace helps any game plan.I get your point about the problem with the old game plan against pressure but I'd argue that having more poor kicks on the team isn't going to assist greatly when teams are applying strong pressure. I've yet to see any average to poor kicks of the footy who get better under pressure and going forward our midfield will consist of Boyd, Cross, Griffen, (part-time) Cooney, Wallis, Libber, Dahlhaus largely. The pace and skill of that group worries me immensely. And the kicking prowess outside of them isn't flash either.
I'm fully prepared to wait and see what comes around but our deficiencies in these areas are glaring and I can't see them improving greatly given our off season.

It's going to take more than one draft to correct our deficiencies. Next year we have two first rounds and two thirds rounds already, plus it's back to a normal draft so I'm not too fussed about not getting an outside runner early this year.

[LongWait]

Re: Draft:

Obviously they do otherwise they might have taken a different approach.
You asked for my opinion and I gave a detailed response and now here is a couple for you.
- Were you concerned by our lack of leg speed last year?
- Given our playing list prior to the draft did you place a higher emphasis on winning the contested ball than pace, run and skills?

I thought we were exposed at times in games by teams who appeared to have more leg speed - especially up forward and when Dahlhous and Grant were not prominent. Teams simply ran the ball hard out of our forward line and through the middle. This was exascerbated by our regularly displaying an almost complete absense of defensive forward pressure and our inconsistency in our ability to spread and receive from the contest. It is these characteristics as much as a genuine lack of leg speed that made us look slow at times.

So the answer to your first question is that I think you pose the wrong question.

What is the most important deficiency we need to overcome? Leg-speed was not the answer at this time (although I concede that the balance will shift as more players are in the team who effectively play the new game style - then added leg speed might become a very high priority.) I would add that, if faced with choosing between two players, both of whom tick all of the contested ball winning, defensive pressure, team oriented boxes, then you'd chose between them based upon kicking skills and then maybe leg speed. There are so many attributes that make an elite footballer that it is difficult to isolate one or two attributes. Some (including Wells at Geelong) argue that footballing intelligence and simple ability to play the game rank far more highly than any athletic abilities, including leg-speed, or being elite at one element of the game but ordinary at everything else, for example being an elite kick but useless in other aspects.

Isn't it really now about getting players who can and will play the team plan? That is the fundamental non-negotiable now that individual brilliance is no longer enough to get you a flag at the elite level. Even Chris Grant conceded that we as a club have always celebrated individual brilliance too much and I think many agree that senior players have had too much influence and independance at our club. Coaching and having an appropriate and well executed game plan are becoming increasingly important elements in the modern game, as opposed to the talent of the individual players.

[GVGjr]

Re: Draft:

There are so many attributes that make an elite footballer that it is difficult to isolate one or two attributes. Some (including Wells at Geelong) argue that footballing intelligence and simple ability to play the game rank more far more highly than any athletic abilities, including leg-speed, or being elite at one element of the game but ordinary at everything else, for example being an elite kick but useless in other aspects.

This is an excellent point. The Cats will look to take good all-round players generally providing they have football smarts and they still have a good balance of pace and skills. They aren't afraid to also take players who are a little older like they have with Harry Taylor (in the 1st round) Pods and Stephenson if they fill a need.
They also more often than not pick from late in the draft especially in the first round but to me there is always a focus on players being somewhat athletic but not slow.

They seem to do it better than most year after year.

Their recent draft history

2011
Joel Hamling - Athletic forward
Shane Kersten - Forward
Jordan Murdoch - Athletic forward
Lincoln McCarthy
Orren Stephenson - Ruckman

2010
Billie Smedts - Athletic mid sized defender
Cameron Guthrie - Footy smart mid sized defender
George Horlin Smith - Athletic (project) forward/midfielder
Jordan Schroeder
James Posiadly

2009
Daniel Menzel - Footy smart athletic utility
Mitchell Duncan - Footy smart midfielder/forward
Nathan Vardy - Forward/ruckman
Allen Christensen - Quick midfielder forward
Josh Cowan - Midfielder

2008
Mitchell Brown - Key forward
Tom Gillies - Tall defender
Taylor Hunt - Small defender

[GVGjr]

Re: Draft:

One other thing to add to the discussion on Geelong. They traded their first round pick (26) to GWS for two 2nd round selections (32 and 34)
It appears to me that their planning had a lot of method in their madness and they worked out that they could use a later pick than 26 to get the player they wanted in Hamling. With the extra pick in the 2nd round they snared Kersten who was strongly touted to go in the top 30. They topped it off with Murdoch at their natural pick #48.

They obviously didn't see the need to use pick 26 on Hamling when something early in the 30's would still get the job done.
It's a good lesson in not 'reaching' for a player if you can somehow increase the value of your selections via a trade. It does however, require a lot of forward planning. It appears to me that they got an extra 2nd round selection (early) for nothing.
Love to have a chat to Neil Balme and Stephen Wells on why they traded that pick.