Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

I blame Shaun for the dreadful pass to Shemran in the back half too.

Well the coach and also the commentators on 7 blame Sherman not Higgins. I guess we all focus on the bloke kicking it but surely Sherman should have been aware of O'Brien coming and turned his body to block him from the spoil.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Well the coach and also the commentators on 7 blame Sherman not Higgins. I guess we all focus on the bloke kicking it but surely Sherman should have been aware of O'Brien coming and turned his body to block him from the spoil.

Perhaps, but he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head and Sherman was basically flat footed whilst O'Brien was running with momentum. It's why the kick should not have gone to him at all, but if it did, the ball needed to be placed closer to the boundary line so that it favoured Sherman.

Instead, the ball was kicked closer to the corridor (Sherman's right side of his body) and this made it extremely easy for O'Brien to pick off.

Higgins is the one in control of the ball and can see (and make) the play, I think it's ridiculous to blame Sherman solely for that mistake.

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Perhaps, but he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head and Sherman was basically flat footed whilst O'Brien was running with momentum. It's why the kick should not have gone to him at all, but if it did, the ball needed to be placed closer to the boundary line so that it favoured Sherman.

Instead, the ball was kicked closer to the corridor (Sherman's right side of his body) and this made it extremely easy for O'Brien to pick off.

Higgins is the one in control of the ball and can see (and make) the play, I think it's ridiculous to blame Sherman solely for that mistake.

Ok, you disagree with the coach.

[EasternWest]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Perhaps, but he doesn't have eyes in the back of his head and Sherman was basically flat footed whilst O'Brien was running with momentum. It's why the kick should not have gone to him at all, but if it did, the ball needed to be placed closer to the boundary line so that it favoured Sherman.

Instead, the ball was kicked closer to the corridor (Sherman's right side of his body) and this made it extremely easy for O'Brien to pick off.

Higgins is the one in control of the ball and can see (and make) the play, I think it's ridiculous to blame Sherman solely for that mistake.

Ok, you disagree with the coach.

So does that make TBB wrong?

The coach can have all the experience in the world, but that doesn't remove the fact that the kick from Higgins was an absolute turkey.

Sherman may have attacked it more vigorously (and TBH, I can't remember what he did clearly enough so I'll happily concede that the coach could well also be right with his disappointment in Sherman on that occasion), but as soon as that kick came off Higgins' boot my first reaction was to think it was going to get picked off.

The coach can think what he will, as can you, as can I. It's not whether you agree with the coach or not that concerns me, and I'm not having a dig at you.

But that kick was very poor.

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

So does that make TBB wrong?

Did I say that he TBB is wrong? I said he disagrees with the coach

So does that make TBB wrong?

The coach can have all the experience in the world, but that doesn't remove the fact that the kick from Higgins was an absolute turkey.

Sherman may have attacked it more vigorously (and TBH, I can't remember what he did clearly enough so I'll happily concede that the coach could well also be right with his disappointment in Sherman on that occasion), but as soon as that kick came off Higgins' boot my first reaction was to think it was going to get picked off.

The coach can think what he will, as can you, as can I. It's not whether you agree with the coach or not that concerns me, and I'm not having a dig at you.

But that kick was very poor.

If you don't remember why are you commenting. Every one sees it differently, and what I am saying is the coach saw it differently to most supporters.

Supporters just like to bag Higgins so I suspect thats why they say he did the wrong thing.

[EasternWest]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Did I say that he TBB is wrong? I said he disagrees with the coach

No, you didn't. It just seemed that by using that response you were inferring that TBB was incorrect and that the coach was right. Apologies if I upset you.

If you don't remember why are you commenting. Every one sees it differently, and what I am saying is the coach saw it differently to most supporters.

Supporters just like to bag Higgins so I suspect thats why they say he did the wrong thing.

I'm commenting for two reasons: 1) The kick stood out to me as the error in that piece of play. Even after seeing it replayed on Friday night, there was nothing about Sherman's actions that stood out to me as being the problem in that sequence of play. Ergo, I didn't remember his actions as clearly as the coach seems to. I only made the comment in parenthesis to highlight this fact, but am willing to acknowledge that the coach may have seen it differently. 2) This is a public forum, and driven by the thoughts and opinions of its users, of which I am one. Again, I apologise if any of this upset you. I tried to be clear that I wasn't potting you.

I thought Higgins played ok on Friday night, and I'm not one to sink players for one (or two, or three errors. They happen). But I did feel that his kick was poor, and should have either been more direct, or further out towards the boundary line.

Plenty of people bag Higgins. I'm not his biggest fan, but I don't let that influence what I say here. As I said, I thought he did ok against the Pies, but that kick was a howler IMO.

Out of interest BAD, do you think the kick was the problem or Sherman's efforts on the end of it? Not picking a debate, if you're opinion is different to mine that's cool of course, just curious.

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Out of interest BAD, do you think the kick was the problem or Sherman's efforts on the end of it? Not picking a debate, if you're opinion is different to mine that's cool of course, just curious.

No need to apologise because I wasn't upset, you misunderstood what I said to TBB and took it as a criticism of his post. I was just saying his point of view is different than the coaches. In fact the commentors on 7 as well.

In regards to your question, the kick was accurate and chest high, O'Brien made a great spoil and kicked the goal. Perhaps Higgins should have seen O'Brien coming and not kicked it there. On the other hand, Sherman shouldn't just stand there expecting the ball to fall into his arms. The coach said he should have made an extra effort to mark the ball.

There you go a bit of both ways.

[EasternWest]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

No need to apologise because I wasn't upset, you misunderstood what I said to TBB and took it as a criticism of his post. I was just saying his point of view is different than the coaches. In fact the commentors on 7 as well.

In regards to your question, the kick was accurate and chest high, O'Brien made a great spoil and kicked the goal. Perhaps Higgins should have seen O'Brien coming and not kicked it there. On the other hand, Sherman shouldn't just stand there expecting the ball to fall into his arms. The coach said he should have made an extra effort to mark the ball.

There you go a bit of both ways.

No worries . I still say 90-10 Higgins, but appreciate reading your take on it. It always interest me that we can all see the same thing happen but take different views from it. Cheers.

[Greystache]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Watched the replay tonight, a couple of things I noted

- Gia had a very good last quarter
- Vez needs to be tougher with the ball in hand
- Higgins kick to Sherman was poor, kicked it to the advantage of O'Brien, gave him little chance
- Hargrave was excellent
- Lake was back to his best
- Walls made a big impact once on, was smart under pressure
- Collingwood won most of the contests after 3/4 time
- We had the better of the coaching battle, we played the match on our terms for most if it

disappointing finish but in a year or two we'd win that match

[LostDoggy]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

- We had the better of the coaching battle, we played the match on our terms for most if it

Do you think Buckley is up to it? Collingwood's okay list got a lot of mileage out of Malthouse's wily tactical insight and game day smarts, especially their backline. (Whatever you think of him I think we can all agree that Malthouse is a top shelf coach.)

I really doubt that, for all his strengths, Buckley has anywhere near the same nous or basic rat cunning that Mick would have from a tactical perspective (the same rat cunning that Eade has -- I suppose that's what he brings to the coaching panel for Bucks.. I'll bet good money that the suggestion of O'Brien sneaking -- sneaking, not playing -- forward to kick a couple, just after being exposed as a defender in one-on-one in marking contests with Gia, came from Rocket, as he knew that it would be the best way to even up that individual duel as Gia wouldn't follow Harry down the ground).

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Do you think Buckley is up to it? Collingwood's okay list got a lot of mileage out of Malthouse's wily tactical insight and game day smarts, especially their backline. (Whatever you think of him I think we can all agree that Malthouse is a top shelf coach.)

I really doubt that, for all his strengths, Buckley has anywhere near the same nous or basic rat cunning that Mick would have from a tactical perspective (the same rat cunning that Eade has -- I suppose that's what he brings to the coaching panel for Bucks.. I'll bet good money that the suggestion of O'Brien sneaking -- sneaking, not playing -- forward to kick a couple, just after being exposed as a defender in one-on-one in marking contests with Gia, came from Rocket, as he knew that it would be the best way to even up that individual duel as Gia wouldn't follow Harry down the ground).

Rat cunning! LOL, I spilled my breakfast when I read that.

[Bornadog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Do you think Buckley is up to it? Collingwood's okay list got a lot of mileage out of Malthouse's wily tactical insight and game day smarts, especially their backline. (Whatever you think of him I think we can all agree that Malthouse is a top shelf coach.).

A bit unfair to compare a coach with almost 30 years experience at senior level to a first year coach.

[1eyedog]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Ease up on Sherman and Higgins, we were within a goal of the filth going in to extra time with no idea how much longer was on the clock, these create high pressure situations which can create turnovers. I'm not about to get stuck in over these two mistakes after the effort we put in over four quarters. We need to be better in these situations no doubt and that was what Macca was on about on SEN the other day, but as always there were a hundred contingencies throughout the game that affected the final result. Boyd kicked it to the opposition twice, one resulted in a goal, Jones fumbled in the goal square in the second quarter, Toovey was let off the hook twice from half back one resulted in a goal by him the second a goal assist.

We could have been much closer or even in front in the second half of the last quarter if we all stuck to our role throughout the entire game.

[Greystache]

Re: Game Day 2012 - R6 Western Bulldogs vs Collingwood

Do you think Buckley is up to it? Collingwood's okay list got a lot of mileage out of Malthouse's wily tactical insight and game day smarts, especially their backline. (Whatever you think of him I think we can all agree that Malthouse is a top shelf coach.)

I really doubt that, for all his strengths, Buckley has anywhere near the same nous or basic rat cunning that Mick would have from a tactical perspective (the same rat cunning that Eade has -- I suppose that's what he brings to the coaching panel for Bucks.. I'll bet good money that the suggestion of O'Brien sneaking -- sneaking, not playing -- forward to kick a couple, just after being exposed as a defender in one-on-one in marking contests with Gia, came from Rocket, as he knew that it would be the best way to even up that individual duel as Gia wouldn't follow Harry down the ground).

It's too early to tell, but having seen Collingwood's last 2 games live one thing I'm almost certain of is they're not as good as they were the past 2 years.

Their forward pressure and overall defensive intensity has really dropped off, and they are caught between wanting to take the game on through the corridor and applying fierce pressure on the ball carrier, and in effect doing neither really.

They seem caught between 2 game plans, which means they've lost the competitive edge they had previously, and haven't replaced it with anything that's as valuable. They actually remind me of the Bulldogs of 2011, but with a more balanced list they'll still be competitive.