Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

[Mantis]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

I agree with you completely Lantern - if we are absolutely desperate for a pick in the top half dozen and we finish too high to naturally get it, we should be prepared to trade picks or players to upgrade. Tanking is unthinkable for a club such as ours (although experimenting and getting games into young players is not.)

But isn't this one and the same?

By experimenting you are compromising your ability to win or sometimes to even be competitive.

[Desipura]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

But isn't this one and the same?

By experimenting you are compromising your ability to win or sometimes to even be competitive.

Well we have no choice but to experiment given the lack of middle aged players on our list. Experimenting now will hopefully ensure we play a brand of footy that holds up against the better sides, we have to do it at some stage.
If we were truly tanking, Gia, Hargrave & Cross would be playing seconds.

[stefoid]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

But isn't this one and the same?

By experimenting you are compromising your ability to win or sometimes to even be competitive.

I think the line is drawn when the siren starts. Do what you like at the selection table, but once the game is being played, you play to win. Unlike Melbourne playing players out of position deliberately to curb their influence, dragging players who kicked goal, that sort of thing.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

I agree with you completely Lantern - if we are absolutely desperate for a pick in the top half dozen and we finish too high to naturally get it, we should be prepared to trade picks or players to upgrade. Tanking is unthinkable for a club such as ours (although experimenting and getting games into young players is not.)

I'm just going to say it; surely if we get to round 20 and we are on similar games with clubs to finish between 12th and 15th on the ladder we would play kids to drop back. There are a group of 4-6 high quality mids early on from the looks of things that we'd be stupid to miss out on and if we end up pick 10 and above it could mean a huge differencial. I'm not an advocate of tanking a season but if we miss out on a much greater quality group of players because we finished 12th or 13th on % I'll be pretty frustrated. By all accounts this "superdraft" is on and we've thrown our dice on the table. We got miserly compensation from the AFL for the loss of a future captain and I want to get as much as we can for it. I'm aware I seem to be in the minority on this board regarding this point.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

I'm just going to say it; surely if we get to round 20 and we are on similar games with clubs to finish between 12th and 15th on the ladder we would play kids to drop back. There are a group of 4-6 high quality mids early on from the looks of things that we'd be stupid to miss out on and if we end up pick 10 and above it could mean a huge differencial. I'm not an advocate of tanking a season but if we miss out on a much greater quality group of players because we finished 12th or 13th on % I'll be pretty frustrated. By all accounts this "superdraft" is on and we've thrown our dice on the table. We got miserly compensation from the AFL for the loss of a future captain and I want to get as much as we can for it. I'm aware I seem to be in the minority on this board regarding this point.

Not with me you're not

It's simply good business management

[mjp]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

IThere are a group of 4-6 high quality mids early on from the looks of things that we'd be stupid to miss out on and if we end up pick 10 and above it could mean a huge differencial.

Who are you going to miss out on? Last year we missed out on Crozier even though he was there at our selection...or maybe Smith is/will be a better player. Opinions are mixed on this (and 1 million other) points and I cannot see a pick or two making anywhere near as much difference as the player development work done at the club.

The draft is more than 10 deep and based on what I have seen even trying to figure out who the number 1 pick is going to be is a bit of a crap shoot.

[Maddog37]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

Who are you going to miss out on? Last year we missed out on Crozier even though he was there at our selection...or maybe Smith is/will be a better player. Opinions are mixed on this (and 1 million other) points and I cannot see a pick or two making anywhere near as much difference as the player development work done at the club.

The draft is more than 10 deep and based on what I have seen even trying to figure out who the number 1 pick is going to be is a bit of a crap shoot.

Agree strongly here and That is where our new coach is key. Hope he s as good as he seems.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

Who are you going to miss out on? Last year we missed out on Crozier even though he was there at our selection...or maybe Smith is/will be a better player. Opinions are mixed on this (and 1 million other) points and I cannot see a pick or two making anywhere near as much difference as the player development work done at the club.

The draft is more than 10 deep and based on what I have seen even trying to figure out who the number 1 pick is going to be is a bit of a crap shoot.

We'll do OK wherever we end up I agree but FWIW I think Stringer or Toumpas would make a huge difference to our club and we'd likely get one of them 5 or 6 (if Melbourne are forced to take Viney) but not 8 or 9. Accepting the draft will be overanalysed by everyone, and thrown around/chopped and changed by 1000 experts ad infinitum between now and draft time; Whitfield, Toumpas, Stringer seem to be standouts in a solid year. I've seen all three play twice live minimum, I've watched alot of the other "pundit picks", and I just want them. If it means we play Hooper/Skinner round 20 onwards to get one of them I'm OK with it. The old "opinions are like .... and everyones got one" springs to mind when I type this but that's my position on it. There are many other good players in the offering but these guys look outstanding.

[stefoid]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

Who are you going to miss out on? Last year we missed out on Crozier even though he was there at our selection...or maybe Smith is/will be a better player. Opinions are mixed on this (and 1 million other) points and I cannot see a pick or two making anywhere near as much difference as the player development work done at the club.

The draft is more than 10 deep and based on what I have seen even trying to figure out who the number 1 pick is going to be is a bit of a crap shoot.

Sure, but the lower the pick the more chance of getting the type of player you want, right?

[mjp]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

We'll do OK wherever we end up I agree but FWIW I think Stringer or Toumpas would make a huge difference to our club and we'd likely get one of them 5 or 6 (if Melbourne are forced to take Viney) but not 8 or 9. Accepting the draft will be overanalysed by everyone, and thrown around/chopped and changed by 1000 experts ad infinitum between now and draft time; Whitfield, Toumpas, Stringer seem to be standouts in a solid year. I've seen all three play twice live minimum, I've watched alot of the other "pundit picks", and I just want them. If it means we play Hooper/Skinner round 20 onwards to get one of them I'm OK with it. The old "opinions are like .... and everyones got one" springs to mind when I type this but that's my position on it. There are many other good players in the offering but these guys look outstanding.

I watched Stringer play up close and personal on the weekend and he simply wasn't up to it against div 1 opposition. Top 10? Good God. The world has gone crazy.

Whitfield? Fine. Toumpas...yep - he runs hard I accept that - is he really a difference making player??? Our first round pick might get us Travis Boak who is a lot more surer bet than either of them.

If you are talking missing out on Patton last year or the chance to draft Hogan this year, then I am buying. Mids - even very good ones - are going to come and go...the secret is getting a BUNCH of them to throw at the opposition.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

Leaving the differencial on the actual players either of us would take (which is still highly subjective mid-year) the philosphical approach to getting as high as we can during the season vs trading position is the bigger question for me. Assuming 6 Cooney potential players are lined up picks 1-6 and then 6 Higgin type picks 7-18 i.e still pretty handy players, I'd suggest it makes sense to play kids from round 20. I totally get no-one can read a draft in that level of intimacy but I do believe we may see a fair old gap at somewhere post pick 5-8. If you look back into draft history it seems from about the 2000 onward drafts the consistent match winning players get picked out before pick 8. There are exceptions. The club needs to make that call but if they believe the draft stacks up anywhere near that (i.e Cooney types pre 5 or 6 v Higgins types thereafter) would you still object to the directive to gently tank late to be made?

Melbourne were probably too obvious about it (and their culture seems to suck) but the MC could easily justify playing more kids late and goodness knows our list needs games in kids we think could make it anyway. If you look back, we kind of did this last year so it's just a greater extention of that. I'd prefer to go to a winning game than a losing game but I'd rather win a premiership than come 12th instead of 15th and I'll take the pain of a couple of extra losses to get hold of a matchwinnng Cooney type player any time we need to.

Totally agree re the BUNCH of mids but I'll put a bunch of Cooney's against a bunch of Higgins' any day of the week. Can't see us getting Boak - he's Geelong bound for mine so we'll need to build up via the best of the draft we can get.

[stefoid]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

I watched Stringer play up close and personal on the weekend and he simply wasn't up to it against div 1 opposition. Top 10? Good God. The world has gone crazy.

Whitfield? Fine. Toumpas...yep - he runs hard I accept that - is he really a difference making player??? Our first round pick might get us Travis Boak who is a lot more surer bet than either of them.

If you are talking missing out on Patton last year or the chance to draft Hogan this year, then I am buying. Mids - even very good ones - are going to come and go...the secret is getting a BUNCH of them to throw at the opposition.

From what I hear on the big footy D&T board Stringer is recovering from a broken leg isnt he?

Regardless , for those of us who survive on heresay, he sounds like the type of player we need, whether its specifically him or a similar player. The lower the draft picks we get, the better the chance we get a quality player of the type we need. And we all know thats classy, line breaking players who can kick the ball and kick goals, either from the midfield and when playing forward.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

Not with me you're not

It's simply good business management

Me either

[mjp]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

Totally agree re the BUNCH of mids but I'll put a bunch of Cooney's against a bunch of Higgins' any day of the week. Can't see us getting Boak - he's Geelong bound for mine so we'll need to build up via the best of the draft we can get.

Me too. But if the bunch of Higgins' are kicking it to Buddy and the bunch of Cooneys' are kicking it to Will Minson, what do you think the score might be?

If Boak is to be traded Port will want the best offer possible - if we make that offer AND offer strong compensation for the player ($) then we are every chance.

Going back to Stringer, apparently he broke his leg last year but had kicked 20+ goals at TAC Cup level and was averaging 25 touches per game THIS year. It just isn't that easy at the championships - which is why performances there count and in terms of being drafted you are often better off NOT being selected than playing well in the trial games, getting a chance and having a couple of quiet ones.

[Bornadog]

Re: Jason McCartney's View On Drafting Etc...

Me too. But if the bunch of Higgins' are kicking it to Buddy and the bunch of Cooneys' are kicking it to Will Minson, what do you think the score might be?

If Boak is to be traded Port will want the best offer possible - if we make that offer AND offer strong compensation for the player ($) then we are every chance.

Going back to Stringer, apparently he broke his leg last year but had kicked 20+ goals at TAC Cup level and was averaging 25 touches per game THIS year. It just isn't that easy at the championships - which is why performances there count and in terms of being drafted you are often better off NOT being selected than playing well in the trial games, getting a chance and having a couple of quiet ones.

MJP, how are these kids assessed on whether they have the passion to make it in the big league? At the ages of 16, 17 and even 18 kids can show real talent but other distractions scan come into their lives and they could eventually lose the passion to play at the highest level.

I guess what I am asking is how important do you see the role of the recruiters to delve into their lives and find out what is in their heads before recruiting them? This is surely a big part of recruitment and list management and I would think one of the most important areas when making a decision.

I was involved in elite kayaking for awhile through my daughter and saw many talented kids who have gone on to compete at world championships, yet many seem to burn out and give it up when they are around 19 years old. How can this be managed earlier, ie the loss of the passion etc.

As a coach, do you worry about these aspects or just worry about coaching who you have at your disposal and let the AFL recruiters do their job? I would imagine you almost need a psychology degree to deal with the human side and not just the talent side.