Trading...Tanking

[Remi Moses]

Re: Trading...

That's not the way to look at it. It's about teaching the players to place a premium on winning and that winning should be the aim every time you put on the club colors. As supporters we should be demanding it.
You are effectively asking the coach and players to pick and choose when they will or won't try and that cannot serve the club well over the longer term. Establishing a culture that sets high standards will serve the club far better than a bump in the draft order of a few positions.

Didn't infer that the players "Don't try". Merely saying if we have players that need post season surgery or playing guys like Howard instead of Gilbee. Just looking at the fixture I wouldn't say we'd have to many more wins anyhow.

[GVGjr]

Re: Trading...Tanking

Do you think GVG that tanking can have long term benefits for a club or is it just a cop out in which in encourages teams to lose and try which is not good for the game.

From what I can tell it's nothing more than a convenient under researched expression that appeals to people that are either frustrated with results or prone to taking short cuts in life. It's certainly not good for the game to have so many people willing their side to lose once they come to the realization that they won't make the finals.

The AFL introduced priority picks to try and help clubs that bottom out but this ended up with the public wanting their clubs to tank games to gain extra selections which isn't ideal.
The Hawks never dropped games to move up the order nor did the Swans. Well run sides don't need to cheat the system. Thankfully we have a coach that wants to prove himself and he wouldn't throw games to jump a few positions in the draft order.

It's a shame we don't have a relegation system like the EPL. No EPL fan wants to see their side lose and be dropped down a division. They don't have a draft that can be compromised by all this negative speculation either.

[The Underdog]

Re: Trading...

Personally, I am very tired of hearing about how Geelong go about it. If you think premierships in 2015 will be won playing the style of footy perfected by Geelong between 2007 and 2011 then I have a harbour bridge I would like to sell you.

It's the issue I have with picking Smith because he is a certain "type" that fits the contested game plan. I remember McCartney saying at the time that they needed to draft now to plan for the retirements of Boyd, Cross etc, but realistically what are Wallis and Liberatore if not pretty direct replacements for those guys? On the other hand we didn't draft at all to fill the hole of the massive lack of pace in our list. I'm actually starting to miss Nathan Eagleton's ability to run and carry and hit a target.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Re: Trading...

annoyed at this post. Give the kid a bloody chance before you give up on him. The kid played a quarter & a half yesterday & had 5 tackles, only 2 players had more tackles.

What has Crozier done in his 3 games to suggest he will be a better player than Clay?

Clay needs to improve his kicking but he is one tough mongrel & something we lack.

I know a lot of posters are questioning the way macca is going about it but look at Geelong. A lot of those players are not blessed with speed or exquisite kicking skills but they are all hard tough mongrels that are bloody hard to play against. I for one would love to see my side as a side everyone considers the hardest to play against.

Actually, Crozier has been pretty good for Freo.

[The Underdog]

Re: Trading...Tanking

It's a shame we don't have a relegation system like the EPL. No EPL fan wants to see their side lose and be dropped down a division. They don't have a draft that can be compromised by all this negative speculation either.

Unfortunately that's all most fans in the EPL can hope for because the majority of teams have no chance of winning it, unless their team get's bought by the right kind of billionaire. That's a worse issue than potential tanking in my view.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Trading...Tanking

Teams now either match us for contested stuff, or they wait until we stuff up and just run all over the place

[anfo27]

Re: Trading...

Not sure Brisbane or Sydney would suggest we are a difficult side to play against.

I am sorry but two out of our past three performances have been completely unacceptable and attendance is showing that either the fan base has completely lost hope or they have lost some hope and really don't enjoy watching us play at the moment. That Brisbane look to be a quicker, more skilled side yesterday despite their well chronicled drafting/trading snafus is not good...not good at all.

Personally, I am very tired of hearing about how Geelong go about it. If you think premierships in 2015 will be won playing the style of footy perfected by Geelong between 2007 and 2011 then I have a harbour bridge I would like to sell you.

not sure why you posted this? I said i would like to tough to beat, never suggested thats what we are now.

Well i'm tired of hearing people going on about getting pace. We used to be the quickest team years ago and that didn't win us anything. We need players that can play regardless of how quick they are.

[anfo27]

Re: Trading...

Actually, Crozier has been pretty good for Freo.

Never said he was rubbish. Has he done so much is 3 games that you can say he s a much better player than Smith? Smith didn't have a bad debut either.

[chef]

Re: Trading...

Actually, Crozier has been pretty good for Freo.

Yep and looks like the type we are crying out for.

[Greystache]

Re: Trading...

Actually, Crozier has been pretty good for Freo.

4.3 kicks a game, wow.

[Missing Dog]

Re: Trading...

Crozier Fitted our needs more than Smith.
We where very keen On Crozier that is Fact.
Not having a pot on Smith think he has been ok just saying that for such a high pick to 'pick
a player with Poor Skills when we needed outside pace and skill was staggering.

[mjp]

Re: Trading...

not sure why you posted this? I said i would like to tough to beat, never suggested thats what we are now.

Well i'm tired of hearing people going on about getting pace. We used to be the quickest team years ago and that didn't win us anything. We need players that can play regardless of how quick they are.

I posted it because I was curious about what elements of our style of play make you think we are going to be hard to play against. We win a stoppage then kick it straight to the other team...and by recruiting players with poor foot skills we are perpetuating a 'now' problem (Cross, Boyd et al) into a future problem (Smith).

Who cares if you are 'hard at it' if you cannot release the ball to a team-mate. I don't ever remember us being the 'quickest' team in it, but we did have leg-speed. Now we have very little and it hurts us...it hurts us even more because our lack of legspeed and poor kicking skills make it impossible to maintain possession of the ball.

Yes - we need players who can play. To me, the old adage that if you can't kick you can't play has never been truer and we have far too many players in our side in this category.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Trading...

I posted it because I was curious about what elements of our style of play make you think we are going to be hard to play against. We win a stoppage then kick it straight to the other team...and by recruiting players with poor foot skills we are perpetuating a 'now' problem (Cross, Boyd et al) into a future problem (Smith).

Who cares if you are 'hard at it' if you cannot release the ball to a team-mate. I don't ever remember us being the 'quickest' team in it, but we did have leg-speed. Now we have very little and it hurts us...it hurts us even more because our lack of legspeed and poor kicking skills make it impossible to maintain possession of the ball.

Yes - we need players who can play. To me, the old adage that if you can't kick you can't play has never been truer and we have far too many players in our side in this category.

I don't know how much of it is confidence or skill, but we were so bloody deplorable and kicking for goal and general passing it was embarrasing. It got so bad that you knew that we would miss every set shot, and every no pressure pass would either completely miss the target or hit the target and be dropped after getting first grabs.

[FrediKanoute]

Re: Trading...Tanking

Do you think GVG that tanking can have long term benefits for a club or is it just a cop out in which in encourages teams to lose and try which is not good for the game.

I'll have a go and point to teams like Carlton and Melbourne and Richmond and Freo who have all "tanked"/finished low on the ladder for an extended period of time. The have been blessed with some talented footballers, but it hasn't got any of them closer to a GF or a flag. Why? I think its to do with establishing a winning process and culture. Having the cattle is part of the battle, but if you take the Geelong model and the Brisbane model before that, the ingredient they had was a winning formula which became a winning mentality. Tanking doesn't get you that. If any thing it develops a culture where losing for short term gain is acceptable. In sport you win or you fail.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Trading...

I don't know how much of it is confidence or skill, but we were so bloody deplorable and kicking for goal and general passing it was embarrasing. It got so bad that you knew that we would miss every set shot, and every no pressure pass would either completely miss the target or hit the target and be dropped after getting first grabs.

Are you just talking about the Brisbane game? Against Port we were not that bad.
Swans was a debacle.