Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

[Ghost Dog]

I'm preparing for a tirade on this one. Anyway, take a risk and give it meaning I say.

Pro's

Why wait until Cooney, Murph or Gia ( too late! ) get injured?
Let the pups gain experience and watch the leadership team in action, getting the experience that comes from that now.

Mitch & Dahlhaus have tried their guts out for two seasons. They have even outperformed certain senior players. Would make a good news story and punctuate the end of the season. Some will say its a bit early, but these kids have what it takes and have shown great leadership on the field.

Yes yes, a tad early, buuuut, If we elevate them now, just one game left, then that's another 7 months before they will be back in action. Will give them a taste and some motivation for pre-season, coming into 2013. A reward as well for great effort.

Also, sometimes you have to throw people into the deep end, if you know they can handle it, why be cagey? We need to start taking some calculated risks. GWS and GC are going to be on the rise around the time we will be ready for a tilt. Let our youngsters measure themselves against the best kids in the comp.


Against

Too much pressure too early?
Have they done enough to deserve it?

[AndrewP6]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

Against

Too much pressure too early?
Have they done enough to deserve it?

This sums it up for mine. Hasn't worked at Melbourne, can't see it working at Whitten Oval.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

This sums it up for mine. Hasn't worked at Melbourne, can't see it working at Whitten Oval.

Zac Smith: GCsuns, 22 years of age

[AndrewP6]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

I'm going hunting to find out who else has kids on their leadership group.

Go for it, it's the wrong move IMO.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

Selwood was in the leadership group at the age of 22, according to one site.
Jarryd Blair is 22.
Dayne Beams is 22.
Interestingly, Bryce Gibbs was in the leadership group at the age of 19

Wiki: Gibbs was named in Carlton's leadership group for the 2007 AFL season without having played a single AFL match, which is the first time in history this has happened.

Bad idea? in your view, ok, but it can't be said it hasn't worked at other clubs. Plenty of evidence to discount that.

Voss was captain at 21.....

[AndrewP6]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

Zac Smith: GCsuns, 22 years of age

So? I didn't say it couldn't be done.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

Selwood was in the leadership group at the age of 22, according to one site.
Jarryd Blair is 22.
Dayne Beams is 22.
Interestingly, Bryce Gibbs was in the leadership group at the age of 19

That's all very interesting. I stand by my comment, it's not a good idea.

Bad idea? in your view, ok, but it can't be said it hasn't worked at other clubs. Plenty of evidence to discount that.

I didn't say that. I said it hasn't worked at Melbourne.

[Mofra]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

A player doesn't need to be in the leadership group to show leadership - leadership is displayed irrespective of title.

Influencing others due to position or inferred authority is command, not leadership.

[GVGjr]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

A player doesn't need to be in the leadership group to show leadership - leadership is displayed irrespective of title.

Influencing others due to position or inferred authority is command, not leadership.

Excellent points. Out of the youngsters I have heard talk I rate Wallis and Roughead as guys with leadership skills.
Given the recent events with Liberatore I'm not sure many of them are ready to be given leadership roles at the moment.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

A player doesn't need to be in the leadership group to show leadership - leadership is displayed irrespective of title.

Influencing others due to position or inferred authority is command, not leadership.

It's about giving them access to the circle, to improve their learning.
When a young player stuffs up, and the leadership group has to decide the punisment, is this not leading through position?

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

I didn't say that. I said it hasn't worked at Melbourne.

This sums it up for mine. Hasn't worked at Melbourne (A) , can't see it working at Whitten Oval ( B ) .

yes you did. You pointed to Melbourne, and because it has not worked there, indicated it would not work with us. A = B
I could equally point to other clubs where it has worked, and justify why it would work with us.
I don't see any logic to suggest it would not be a good idea so far. Give me one good reason why Mitch Wallis shouldn't be in our leadership group? Can think of more positives than negatives.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

You pointed to Melbourne, and because it has not worked there, indicated it would not work with us. I could equally point to other clubs where it has worked, and justify why it would work with us. I don't see any logic in your argument.
Give me one good reason why Mitch Wallis shouldn't be in our leadership group?

It was just an opinion. For every debate, you can find "for" and "against" arguments, in the end you give one side more weight or the other (or, on occasion, sit on the fence). If they go down the path of young 'uns in the leadership group, it'll be a mistake IMO.

If you're so keen for logic, I point to the case of Bulldogs v Liberatore, Jr. No, not all the Dogs are in the same boat, but that'd be enough for me to say no to the idea.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

It was just an opinion. For every debate, you can find "for" and "against" arguments, in the end you give one side more weight or the other (or, on occasion, sit on the fence). If they go down the path of young 'uns in the leadership group, it'll be a mistake IMO.

Ok. well you are in education, so I understand you have a good grasp of these things, working with young people. I'm interested in your view. Why not expand it a bit. Why would it be a mistake?

[AndrewP6]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

Ok. well you are a teacher, so I understand you have a good grasp of these things, working with young people. I'm interested in your view. Why not expand it a bit. Why would it be a mistake?

Because, IMO, and there's no research to back it up, just my opinion, players have to put some runs on the board in order to officially lead a football club. Young folks make too many mistakes, by virtue of being young, and being in that group is a big increase in responsibility. I think they need time in the system, around the club, learning from the senior players (who are hopefully doing the right thing) and finding their own niche within the side - or even simply cementing their spot. I don't believe it would be a good idea to put undue pressure on blokes so early into their careers.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Elevate Pups to the Leadership group now?

Because, IMO, and there's no research to back it up, just my opinion, players have to put some runs on the board in order to officially lead a football club. Young folks make too many mistakes, by virtue of being young, and being in that group is a big increase in responsibility. I think they need time in the system, around the club, learning from the senior players (who are hopefully doing the right thing) and finding their own niche within the side - or even simply cementing their spot. I don't believe it would be a good idea to put undue pressure on blokes so early into their careers.

Fair enough. These are really good points.
But Mitch Wallis. Exception to the rule?
Captain at two other levels, pretty much already cemented his spot in our team....
He's Gold.