Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

[Mofra]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Jeemak, agree with everything there.
People bemoan a lack of tall targets yet want to drop the only R2 on our list who is even close to being competitive in the role.

Tall forwards just don't develop at VFL level then suddenly dominate at AFL level when they're promoted.

I like Roberts, but he can't ruck and isn't demanding a game off the back of VFL form. Williams is injured. Jones is barely a ruck and as our "great white hope" should stick to CHF where he most benefits the team.

Whilst Cordy is trying hard, battling and not really getting much of it, we just have to stick with him unless someone else puts their hand up for the role. The only player on the list playing the role at VFL level (Campbell) is well behind him.

[Greystache]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Jeemak, agree with everything there.
People bemoan a lack of tall targets yet want to drop the only R2 on our list who is even close to being competitive in the role.

Tall forwards just don't develop at VFL level then suddenly dominate at AFL level when they're promoted.

I like Roberts, but he can't ruck and isn't demanding a game off the back of VFL form. Williams is injured. Jones is barely a ruck and as our "great white hope" should stick to CHF where he most benefits the team.

Whilst Cordy is trying hard, battling and not really getting much of it, we just have to stick with him unless someone else puts their hand up for the role. The only player on the list playing the role at VFL level (Campbell) is well behind him.

The reality is Cordy is tall and plays in the forward line but that is the only way he can be described as a tall forward. He doesn't mark over head ever and struggles to make a contest let alone impact one. Cordy is a tall in much the same way as Cameron Wight was, he has fairly good agility for his height and is reasonable at ground level, but doesn't actually have any of the attributes of a key position player, ie marking, body strength, ability to lead or read the flight of the ball better than his opopponents etc. He's basically a mid sized player who lacks the athleticism to play that role.

The second ruck only needs to actually ruck for about 5 mins a quarter, that's not likely to impact Jones' role as a forward, and when we've gone extended periods without scoring it will actually keep him involved in the game a bit more.

Cordy is going to be no poorer for playing some vfl footy and being made to earn a place. He may actually take a mark or two at that level or be stronger than an opponent for a change and get some confidence out of it. He's played every game he's been available for in the past year and hasn't shown any sign of improvement from it.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

How about instead of going on the defensive and bringing in defenders (and players learning the defensive craft at that) we go the opposite and attempt to create a tall forward line to try and exploit Mackie, Lonergan, Taylor etc ? A forward line of Stringer, Vez & Cooney (defensive pressure, pace/goal sneak ability) Roberts and Jones (marking pressure).

The forward line hasn’t worked since the Brisbane game. If we can create a forward line that makes Geelong rework their matchups then perhaps this can instil confidence in the team that there are targets and defensive pressure down their that’ll reward their effort.

If Boyd, Wallis & Libba can at least equal out the clearance work rate of the Geelong midfielders then we can be a chance.

We can’t go into this game with the same setups, the same predictable game plan and mindset of teaching by repetition and expect to be competitive with the Cats.

Regards to second ruck. Minson has been dominate/competitive all all games so far. This has still resulted in little effectiveness from contests. Drop the 2nd ruck option of Cordy. It's not a huge element in our gamplan currently and it's been ineffective to date.

Out: Gia, Cordy & Griff
In: Roberts, Vez & Smith

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Would only make 2 changes.

In: Smith & Vez

Out: Griff & Gia

Would persevere with Cordy at this stage. Wouldn't like to see Jones forced to do ruck work. He needs to focus all his energy at this stage of his career in the forward line. Probably won't drop Gia but I hope Vez gets an opportunity.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

The reality is Cordy is tall and plays in the forward line but that is the only way he can be described as a tall forward. He doesn't mark over head ever and struggles to make a contest let alone impact one. Cordy is a tall in much the same way as Cameron Wight was, he has fairly good agility for his height and is reasonable at ground level, but doesn't actually have any of the attributes of a key position player, ie marking, body strength, ability to lead or read the flight of the ball better than his opopponents etc. He's basically a mid sized player who lacks the athleticism to play that role.

The second ruck only needs to actually ruck for about 5 mins a quarter, that's not likely to impact Jones' role as a forward, and when we've gone extended periods without scoring it will actually keep him involved in the game a bit more.

Cordy is going to be no poorer for playing some vfl footy and being made to earn a place. He may actually take a mark or two at that level or be stronger than an opponent for a change and get some confidence out of it. He's played every game he's been available for in the past year and hasn't shown any sign of improvement from it.

Sums it up well.

In my opinion, the only way Cordy makes it is by packing on another 5-10kg and becoming a first choice ruck in 2015. He's quite simply at long odds to ever make it as a forward because as Grey stated, the only resemblance of a key forward he has is his listed height.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

he's been available for in the past year and hasn't shown any sign of improvement from it.

Nope, have to totally disagree with this one. There has been a marked improvement in his strength, reading of the play and aggressiveness. . Sunday was a poor game to judge a tall on given it was Monsoon like conditions.
Do agree he needs to go back to the VFL. If you can't mark the ball, don't expect to be in the forward line at AFL level.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

How about instead of going on the defensive and bringing in defenders (and players learning the defensive craft at that) we go the opposite and attempt to create a tall forward line to try and exploit Mackie, Lonergan, Taylor etc ? A forward line of Stringer, Vez & Cooney (defensive pressure, pace/goal sneak ability) Roberts and Jones (marking pressure).

The forward line hasn’t worked since the Brisbane game. If we can create a forward line that makes Geelong rework their matchups then perhaps this can instil confidence in the team that there are targets and defensive pressure down their that’ll reward their effort.

If Boyd, Wallis & Libba can at least equal out the clearance work rate of the Geelong midfielders then we can be a chance.

We can’t go into this game with the same setups, the same predictable game plan and mindset of teaching by repetition and expect to be competitive with the Cats.

Regards to second ruck. Minson has been dominate/crompetitive all all games so far. This has still resulted in little effectiveness from contests. Drop the 2nd ruck option of Cordy. It's not a huge element in our gamplan currently and it's been ineffective to date.

Out: Gia, Cordy & Griff
In: Roberts, Vez & Smith

I like your thoughts on the forward restructure. I would consider moving JJ forward in an attempt to bring some badly needed pace in the forward line. Pearce would be my choice to replace him in defence. We need another big defender against Geelong and Talia could be a good inclusion. This would release Morris to play on a Motlop. Cordy and Jones have been given long enough as key forwards without succeeding and I agree that Cordy should go back to Willy. The loss of Griffen is a blow. To counteract the Cats dominant midfield Cooney Boyd and Liberatore will need to spend longer periods on the ground.
In. Roberts Talia Vez and Pearce
Out. Cordy Gia Tutt and Griffen

[soupman]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

I don't like the idea of JJ playing forward.

We've spent the past three years developing him from a very raw footballer into a very promising half back. He has attributes we need in defence, he's not a bad user, has pace, can break lines and is solid defensively. He is also clearly one of the core grup of young defenders we are trying to develop together to work well as a unit. I don't see the logic in throwing him up forward in a position we've not trained him for just because he has pace.

The bigger picture right now isn't whether we will be marginally better with JJ or Roughead playing forward, or Jones swinging to CHB, but rather what position do we want them to develop in?

If we want pace in our forwardline pick a pacy forward (like Grant or Tutt), not a pacy defender who's been showing consistent improvement.

[jeemak]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Sums it up well.

In my opinion, the only way Cordy makes it is by packing on another 5-10kg and becoming a first choice ruck in 2015. He's quite simply at long odds to ever make it as a forward because as Grey stated, the only resemblance of a key forward he has is his listed height.

But he's being groomed as a back up ruckman/forward pocket, not a specialist key forward. The idea with players like Cordy, once they mature and fill a spot in a well structured forward line is they stretch the defense.

With Stringer, Jones and possibly Grant up forward and all matured, adding a guy like Cordy stretches most defences I know of.

Agree that he needs another 5 or so KG's added, particularly around his core. But if we're expecting him to be a genuine key forward then we're all up for disappointment.

[Dog54]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Does anyone see the Merit of elevating and playing Austin.

He played great on Jpod last year and is in an age bracket we are deficient in.

He is athletic is in from and could also Allow morris to play on a good smaller sized player and relieve Picken from that role. Play picken as a defensive forward.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Absolutely. Austin looked fine to me moving around the Seagulls backline.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

I think the Cats are a great example of how we can use Morris' versatility normally but my concern is that this isn't normal for Morris.

He is just coming back from injury and I am wary of changing things up too much for him. Is it too much to ask him to play on a dangerous tall (aerobic capacity etc)?

[jeemak]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

Does anyone see the Merit of elevating and playing Austin.

He played great on Jpod last year and is in an age bracket we are deficient in.

He is athletic is in from and could also Allow morris to play on a good smaller sized player and relieve Picken from that role. Play picken as a defensive forward.

For the most part I don't see the value in playing Picken anywhere else than in a tagging role. I suppose an argument could be made for playing him forward while we're down in personnel there, though I'd prefer to see Vesz get an opportunity, and have Dahlhaus master his craft as the small forward who can do a lot in attack and defensively until he develops his tank sufficiently to have longer spurts in the midfield.

I'm not sold on having Austin promoted, just yet. One or two more good performances at the lower level might give him an opportunity, though if Roughead and Morris keep putting in solid performances he might have to wait.

[Ozza]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

One thing I definitely DO NOT want to do - is play a tall forward line against Geelong. They are a much much better defensive unit against a tall forward line and love the ball coming in high and long.

The teams that have scored well against Geelong have been smaller set ups. Carlton have traditionally scored well against Geelong for instance. Look at the Hawthorn game earlier this year - and the Hawks were on top when they were playing a short game going inside 50 - short passes and small leading players getting the footy. In teh second half - they reverted to long balls on top of Buddy, Hale and Roughead.

The one way to get pummelled by Geelong, is to have a big or slow forward line (or both).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Re: Match Committee- Round 5 vs Geelong

I'm thinking, v Geelong with the most undermanned side since Garry Merrington played for us as a star, just the game that Grant will kick four or five. Ya never know.