Teaching/education vs match day

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

Anyone see the stats that Footy Confidential put up?

They compared Neeld/Melbourne to McCartney/Dogs and it was almost exactly the same.

[AndrewP6]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

Anyone see the stats that Footy Confidential put up?

They compared Neeld/Melbourne to McCartney/Dogs and it was almost exactly the same.

Yep, it was depressing.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

Anyone see the stats that Footy Confidential put up?

They compared Neeld/Melbourne to McCartney/Dogs and it was almost exactly the same.

Did it really surprise you though? We were the worst team in the competition for most of last year, Melbourne just took the front foot because they're suppose to be well ahead of were they are right now. We are at the very start of a rebuild they're 5 years into it. If anything it just shows how poorly the Demons have been handled.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

do we really think that McCartney doesn't have the strategic mind to fix the glaringly obvious issues?

Im not saying he is on the same level as Eade and Thompson strategically, but i see a lot of posts suggesting certain strategic changes we should be making and the fact McCartney hasn't made those changes suggests he isn't good enough. or isnt up to it.

Seriously?

The guy is a full-time coach and has been in the system for over a decade. He could not possibly have no idea on how to fix our forward issues or not notice how the opposition are exploiting our weaknesses, whilst us posters can figure it out from watching the game once a week. I refuse to believe this is the case as if it is it is not only a glaring incapability of the coach, but also our whole club and the selection committee, which included the great Chris Grant.

I do have similar questions as to why we aren't making certain changes but i have confidence in the process and am confident the club knows what they are doing. Dare i say if this is not the case we have much bigger issues than winning games

I have to agree, there is a plan in place. The team is very inexperienced and need to adjust to their roles and those around them. Switching a few around isn't going to sneak a win from a ten goal hiding. I predicted us to bottom out the first part of this year and start getting it together later. This is only starting to become Maccas bulldogs.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

Well said.

Agree.

My only guess is McCartney is letting things stick, keeping it consistent to assist in the learning and development of the list (and yes this includes assessment).

McCartney is far to well regarded by very highly respected AFL industry figures to be as poor on matchday as many are suggesting. (And no I don't rate Neeld because I don't respect Malthouse's opinion, and yes I do respect C Ling, J Hird, M McVeigh, C Mooney, etc). The fact that a virtual recluse in Scarlett is working for BMac says amazing things about BMac in IMHO. As a consequence, Roughead's development has been amazing, and this alone is impressive - who else saw or predicted Roughead's successful move back??

And yes Neeld's record is very similar on paper. But Neeld has overseen the departure of Rivers and Moloney (quality players with a lot of good footy left), while McCartney has overseen the departure of Djerkurra, an almost over the hill Lake, a rabbit in Sherman...

Neeld has overseen a massive redcution in output of players who should be maintaining or improving (eg Davey, Trengove). Apart from Cordy and Grant being stagnant, I only see improvement in our players. On day 1 Neeld could well have lost his players when he openly bagged them after a Round 1 flogging last year. BMac appears to have the players respect and is consistent and positive.

Let the players learn, let them play, let them be assessed.

I believe it will be time to review his performance at the end of BMac's contract in 2014, based on:

Development of individuals
Overall list development
Competiveness


At the end of this I will be very surprised if the above aren't ticked off while Mark Neeld will be long gone.

We don't have the cattle. Our list fell over a cliff (and I remain frustrated at how obvious this was and yet nothing was done by Eade and club to address at the end of 2009, and I remain frustrated at our drafting - Howard and Tutt, Grant and Everitt have killed us). McCartney(s) are picking up the pieces. Some of BMac's strategies are interesting, he appears to be preferring endurance over speed, contested over outside. With a cap in rotations coming, and the continued emphasis on contested footy - his focus may well be prescient.

The matchday trickery will come when learning and development becomes less of a focus - I think. We will see.

[Mofra]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

My only guess is McCartney is letting things stick, keeping it consistent to assist in the learning and development of the list (and yes this includes assessment).

Do people forget Eade's first year?
He rarely - if ever - made changes to the back 6 and hardly ever had someone behind the ball (7th defender). Why? he was teaching the defenders to work together, yes it got ugly at times but it was part of their development.
You can't tell me Lake, Morris, Hargrave & Gilbee didn't form a fantastic defnsive base to work from - they developed together.

Coaches work to a multi year strategy, and B-Mac seems tot be doing the same thing. It's easy to pot the coach during a rebuild, but whether he is successful or not wont be known until after the fact.

[KT31]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

Funny thing is Adelaide had less game experience in total than us and also had 11 players with less than 50 games and were in total (average) younger than us. Maybe we just don't have the cattle to be any good.

Wasn't aware of this stat, it's a worry isn't it ?
Someone posted last week we were six players short of being a decent side.
With the decline of our older brigade and the mid aged players not looking up to it.
I am more inclined to put the number around the dozen mark.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

Wasn't aware of this stat, it's a worry isn't it ?
Someone posted last week we were six players short of being a decent side.
With the decline of our older brigade and the mid aged players not looking up to it.
I am more inclined to put the number around the dozen mark.

I agree. Our mid aged players were drafted when we were contending so they were lower picks and development was put on the backburner a little as vets were brought in. I don't have an issue with that FWIW. As you said it's something that stands out now.

Ward and Harbrow there would be nice and help even out the age brackets.

[Bulldog4life]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

Did it really surprise you though? We were the worst team in the competition for most of last year, Melbourne just took the front foot because they're suppose to be well ahead of were they are right now. We are at the very start of a rebuild they're 5 years into it. If anything it just shows how poorly the Demons have been handled.

I agree. When we were playing finals regularly Melbourne were already into their re-building.

[The Pie Man]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

We don't have the cattle. Our list fell over a cliff (and I remain frustrated at how obvious this was and yet nothing was done by Eade and club to address at the end of 2009, and I remain frustrated at our drafting - Howard and Tutt, Grant and Everitt have killed us). McCartney(s) are picking up the pieces. Some of BMac's strategies are interesting, he appears to be preferring endurance over speed, contested over outside. With a cap in rotations coming, and the continued emphasis on contested footy - his focus may well be prescient.

The matchday trickery will come when learning and development becomes less of a focus - I think. We will see.

While I share your frustration that a few around these drafts haven't come on, I don't blame Eade. If anything, he oversaw some regeneration in 2010 - despite the possible (likely**) misses of the 09 draft

* Grant was actually playing some decent footy in his first consistent run in the seniors (inc 6 goals v Essendon in round 22)
* Jordan Roughead debuted early in 2010 (shame about the shoulder)
* Jones was introduced late that year (shame he didn't play finals)
* Ward was into his 3rd year of senior footy and was BOG in the 2010 prelim at age 20
* Harbrow was one of our most important players in only his 4th year at the club - he was 22 at the time
* Picken was only in his 2nd year of senior footy at age 24
* Wood was into his 2nd year of senior footy and played all finals - 21 at the time

** Tutt may still make it - did play on the weekend at least.

Interestingly enough, we're in the same spot after 4 rounds as 2005. 1 win, 3 losses. Has looked an eerilie similar run over the first month as well. Current team lacking the calibre of Johnson/West/Smith though....can't see this team going on a 5 game winning streak late on, but who knows.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

I have to agree, there is a plan in place. The team is very inexperienced and need to adjust to their roles and those around them. Switching a few around isn't going to sneak a win from a ten goal hiding. I predicted us to bottom out the first part of this year and start getting it together later. This is only starting to become Maccas bulldogs.

You don't know that. Lindsay Gillbee was swtiched to full forward for a while and kicked a bag.

[Greystache]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

You don't know that. Lindsay Gillbee was swtiched to full forward for a while and kicked a bag.

??

He played 3 games on a half forward flank in 2011, he kicked 6 against Richmond and didn't kick a goal in either of the other 2 games.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

??

He played 3 games on a half forward flank in 2011, he kicked 6 against Richmond and didn't kick a goal in either of the other 2 games.

exactly.

[Greystache]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

exactly.

That was your point?

Andrejs Everitt played a good half in the ruck in 2009, so I take it you think that's proof he could be the next Dean Cox?

[MrMahatma]

Re: Teaching/education vs match day

I think it's intentional. He's using the game time to have the players learn what he's currently teaching them.

Rightly or wrongly, I think that is a priority for Brendan over and above winning.