Paul Roos

[Hotdog60]

Re: Paul Roos

I'm in the camp of give Macca a go, he is starting from scratch and it will take time to get the kids to that 50 game mark where we should then expect consistency and forward movement.

I would give him another 2 years to see how it unfolds. Roos will be in the same boat as Macca and he won't get much more until the kids get games under their belt.

We need to be patient.

[MrMahatma]

Re: Paul Roos

It's no offence to Macca to say we'd go with Roos. I would. Most clubs in the comp would.

Even Freo would prob do a Freo...

[ratsmac]

Re: Paul Roos

I am still a BMac fan, but only just. He has inherited a list with massive holes in it. I wouldn't mind seeing a win every now again though. At seasons end there's a good chance I would even take wallet back

[LostDoggy]

Re: Paul Roos

Roos officially denied interest in Melbourne.

Richmond and Essendon seem happy. Leaves the dogs as a possibility, perhaps...

Hird officially denied interest in Essendon.

[Ghost Dog]

Re: Paul Roos

Robbo has mentioned on 360 this week he reckons Roos will coach in Victoria next year.

'IF true'

Would you do a Fremantle (dump a a reltively inexperienced head coach for a seasoned and proven head coach) or stick with our BMac and see how it goes???

Melbourne will give him an open checkbook. Won't come near us.

[dog town]

Re: Paul Roos

I could be very wrong but my read on Roos is that he was in the right place at the right time with the swans. Don't get me wrong, it was an amazing coaching performance to do what he did with them from 2003-2006. I just think the way the game was played at that stage, the swans personnel and his method/values/philosophy all fell into line perfectly. When you hear him discuss footy now I am not sure he is the sort of guy who adapts with the game but I am in a pretty limited position to be assuming that.

The swans play a very different style now to what they did under Roos and really only became contenders again after Roos left. He had Longmire, Ross Lyon and the best medical department in the league at the swans. In their grand final years they barely had an injury and all of their medical staff were poached soon after. They also kicked amazingly accurately in those years and that was arguably their best asset. Some of these things are a credit to Roos coaching no doubt.

Few questions to answer.

1. Would his coaching philosophy stand up these days and if not is he adaptable enough to tinker with it?

2. Could we get him the same level of support he had at his former club?

3. He wont start with "the bloods culture" so will he be able to cultivate that again? As I said everything was just perfectly in line when the swans were challengers. Some of it he has to take huge credit for. Some of it was a lucky coincidence and the work of others. You can help bring that out of players but you need some unbelievable leaders to create what they have I have seen it at local level. Often the players are the ones that really drive culture. Do we have those leaders? It's hard to say.

4. Do we have the sort of list that suits Roos? I think in some ways we do. We have lots of ball winners and some solid young defenders to work with. We do still have lots of development to do with our list though and that hasn't been Roos area of strength.

Despite all these questions you can't deny a premiership coach has a certain aura about them that you can't buy. The players would play for him no doubt. I just don't think we should blindly chase him. That is my view from a pretty limited knowledge of how adaptable Roos can be.

[The Doctor]

Re: Paul Roos

DT don't underestimate how strong a manager Roos is. not just a coach but a manager of people. I've seen it first hand inside and outside of football.

Remember when Roos took over the Swans they were a declining force as the Rocket years were waning. They looked as far from a premiership as we do now. It only took a few years for Roos to guide them to the top. His mantra of strong leadership at all levels, prudent list management and a ruthlessly determined team got them there.

Roos along with Stuart Maxfield were the principle architects of the Bloods culture. Roos has a great way in getting people to believe in something or a philosophy he has or a basic direction. Modestly talented players like Brett Kirk rise above the ordinary as a result. Roos is brilliant at identifying strong characters and enabling them to influence those around them and help mesh a unique team spirit and will to succeed.

It is true he had great support staff. But he cobbled that together. He delegated responsibility superbly and shared the power and everyone knew what to do but everyone also knew who was in charge. He coached his assistants to be terrific coaches in their own right. Recognized their talents and empowered them. Helped make them strong leaders.

The thing I believe that helped Roos the most was the strong leadership at the club in senior managerial positions. Richard Colless in my view had been the best President/Chairman of any club in the AFL, arguably ever. He will be missed when he goes.

I'd like us to pursue Roos whether as coach or perhaps to run the football dept if he was up for that. I see our club as a project he wouldn't mind having a go at.

[Bornadog]

Re: Paul Roos

I'd like us to pursue Roos to run the football dept if he was up for that. I see our club as a project he wouldn't mind having a go at.

This^^^

[LostDoggy]

Re: Paul Roos

Seven years into Mark Thompson's tenure as Geelong senior coach, rebuilding their now much revered outfit with 3 premierships in the bank, had many at the cattery demanding his head in 2006. Now Bomber would be one of the most highly sought after coaching commodities. I fear a lack of patience and resolve given our desperation for short term success is our achilles heel, and not necessarily Brendan McCartney's ability to play a key role in getting the job done for us.

Exactly. I want Macca to have 5 years at least to develop his plan and I don't care if we struggle for another 2 of those. Building bigger bodies, endurance and experience whilst at the same time getting more top line draft picks is the way to go. Cutting his tenure short is just mindless merry go round stuff.

Judge not on results but on how our young players are progressing and how much selfless team footy we are able to play over time. Put simply, I don't mind if we lose another 20 games as long as I can see improvement in the way we are adhering to structures and that we are doing it for longer.

[dog town]

Re: Paul Roos

DT don't underestimate how strong a manager Roos is. not just a coach but a manager of people. I've seen it first hand inside and outside of football.

Remember when Roos took over the Swans they were a declining force as the Rocket years were waning. They looked as far from a premiership as we do now. It only took a few years for Roos to guide them to the top. His mantra of strong leadership at all levels, prudent list management and a ruthlessly determined team got them there.

Roos along with Stuart Maxfield were the principle architects of the Bloods culture. Roos has a great way in getting people to believe in something or a philosophy he has or a basic direction. Modestly talented players like Brett Kirk rise above the ordinary as a result. Roos is brilliant at identifying strong characters and enabling them to influence those around them and help mesh a unique team spirit and will to succeed.

It is true he had great support staff. But he cobbled that together. He delegated responsibility superbly and shared the power and everyone knew what to do but everyone also knew who was in charge. He coached his assistants to be terrific coaches in their own right. Recognized their talents and empowered them. Helped make them strong leaders.

The thing I believe that helped Roos the most was the strong leadership at the club in senior managerial positions. Richard Colless in my view had been the best President/Chairman of any club in the AFL, arguably ever. He will be missed when he goes.

I'd like us to pursue Roos whether as coach or perhaps to run the football dept if he was up for that. I see our club as a project he wouldn't mind having a go at.

I don't disagree with anything you said. He had to be all of those things for what happened at the swans to happen. I still think it all fell into line perfectly for him. Could that happen with us? It isn't out of the question. I was certainly going to mention Maxfield and Kirk. These 2 guys personify selflessness. I am a big believer in every person in a footy club is important and everyone has a role to play. Maxfield still has his influence felt to this day which is an amazing accomplishment.

My greatest reservations with Roos and it is the hardest one to justify is whether his philosophies can be adapted to today's game. The only real thing you ever hear him preach on TV is about accountability around stoppages. The game has changed so many times since he coached already and the swans were struggling to adapt when he left. The game may very well swing back his way but if it doesn't he needs to be able to change with it. Impossible for me to know whether it is an unfair assumption that he might struggle with this as I am not in the inner sanctum.

Thanks for the insight into Roos anyway from someone who has been around Sydney.

[Guido]

Re: Paul Roos

DT don't underestimate how strong a manager Roos is. not just a coach but a manager of people. I've seen it first hand inside and outside of football.

I remember Bruce McAvaney, and this was before Roos became coach of Sydney, describing him as someone with the golden touch. Any task, anything he pursued, any career, any business interests, if Paul Roos was involved, it simply turned out successful.

I also clearly remember something Terry Wallace said early in 2003, and this was as a full time commentator with 3AW only a few months after he was overlooked (but got paid out) for the Sydney job. It was a post game chat at about round 4 or 5 and Sydney i think had lost 3/4 on the trot and, at the time, looking like a bottom 4 team.

Wallace said that, having himself assessed the Sydney list when applying for the role six months earlier, whichever coach took on the Sydney job (and he included himself in that group) had a 5-6 year project ahead of them to get Sydney back into the finals again, this would obviously include missing the finals for a few years to rebuild properly and then rebound towards the end of the decade. From that point forward, Paul Roos then takes them to 6 finals appearances in a row, including 2 grand finals and a flag.

I agree with Dog Town that there is a chance that some aspects of the game may have passed him by and there would be a risk involved in bringing him in. And without a doubt Longmire has made alterations (for the better) to the way they go about it, but I reckon the foundations of that team/club, the pillars of how they go about it week to week, are still Paul Roos inspired. i.e. assuming the exact same squad, if Longmuir had have taken over from a Wallace instead, they would not have won the 2012 premiership. Hell, even Lomgmire himself might not be anywhere near the coach he is now without Roos' influence.

Found this article a while back ... pretty interesting to think about how much of a "sliding doors" moment this could have been for the two clubs:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/09/1031115998163.html

Where would the respective clubs be 10 years on, had Wallace gone to Sydney and we got Roos instead of Rohde? There would have been no Cooney and Griffen mind you.

[Throughandthrough]

Re: Paul Roos

Exactly. I want Macca to have 5 years at least to develop his plan and I don't care if we struggle for another 2 of those. Building bigger bodies, endurance and experience whilst at the same time getting more top line draft picks is the way to go. Cutting his tenure short is just mindless merry go round stuff.

Judge not on results but on how our young players are progressing and how much selfless team footy we are able to play over time. Put simply, I don't mind if we lose another 20 games as long as I can see improvement in the way we are adhering to structures and that we are doing it for longer.

I wonder how many wins our coach told the board he expected this year. Wouldn't be 2 or 3.

[The bulldog tragician]

Re: Paul Roos

This is one of the reasons I enjoy visiting Woof – a conversation, conducted in civil and thoughtful terms, with reasonable valid points of view swinging me from side to side. I’ve changed my mind several times as I’ve read these posts!

It’s an interesting topic because what’s really being discussed is what makes a great coach, and how much success is sheer coaching brilliance and how much it depends on other variables like: a well-resourced and well-managed club; a talented list just waiting for the timely introduction of discipline, game style and/or tactics; or accidents of luck, timing and history Sometimes no matter how talented the coach, they are coaching in an era where there is a super team that really stands head and shoulders above anyone else, and blocks what might have been a premiership any other year.

The years 1996-8 are an interesting case study in this. A premiership coach (Alan Joyce) was unable to lift our list above mediocrity in 1996. The next year we could have (should have...) won a flag, with pretty much the same resources and playing list. Does this mean Terry Wallace was a coaching genius and Alan Joyce a dud who was lucky with the list he had at Hawthorn? While we might reckon Wallace achieved wonders in getting us there, could another coach have made a difference on match day and altered the results of the Preliminary Finals That Must Not be Named in 97-98, where coaching moves (Smith on Robran still draws a shudder) or no apparent coaching moves in THAT last quarter could be said to have cost us the game? or were we and Wallace just bloody unlucky?

Back to the topic of Roos – I think he did marvels with a group that was no more and probably less talented than some of the Bulldog teams that haven’t gone all the way lately. But our list at the moment is really poor. BMac’s credentials are in developing young talent and building from the ground up. I think we have to be patient, but the footy nous of someone like Roos wouldn’t go astray.

[wimberga]

Re: Paul Roos

Interesting discussion and Roos is certainly a coach to be admired. However, I think bMac has got to be given time to make his stamp on our team/list/club, and that probably means at least 12 more months.

[lemmon]

Re: Paul Roos

No slight on Macca but Roos has been talked about as one of the best in recent history. The way he implemented a culture that has outlived his reign at the club, one that is imprinted on the young kids coming into the club and is carried by everyone from the Chairman to the boot-studder is something that I have ultimate respect for the man for. I have no doubt he would walk into the club and demand the respect/admiration of the playing group. Once again with all due respect to Macca, I would do the deal in a heartbeat