Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

[Bornadog]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I know why didn't you just post something like 'Are we happy with our drafts and include the list?'

Because we have been in development mode so wins and losses are not that important, so why not give opportunities to young players to be developed as the alternative. Who knows where they would be now after say 30 games or so. Therefore the OP is about those that were given opportunities and have they worked for us.

[Sedat]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I think our list management has been very good since Bmac, Jmac and Dalrymple have all been on board together.

Our hits have far out weighed our misses and even some of those perceived as a miss are yet to show their full wares.

Goodes brought a mature body/head into a defensive half that was seen as young and inexperienced.

Campbell will be our number one ruck after big Will.

Young has been very good since coming to the club.

Dickson bar injury was one of, if not our best performing forward last season.

Stevens is easily best 22, and although some seem to focus entirely on the negative aspect of his game he will play a lot of football for our footy club and be a valuable contributor.

Darley/Fuller too soon to tell.


So to answer your question BAD, no I don't think we wasted draft picks with the players you have listed.

Great summary Slim.

Just on Brett Goodes, if we hadn't butchered out first round pick in 2009 on Christian Howard, we would not have had to shore up a critical area of weakness with a 29yo in 2013. Actually we could have gotten Goodes as a rookie back then and used our first pick on, you know, someone like Fyfe or Carlisle, players that actually had form and history at the highest level in U18's.

I can't fault any of the selections mentioned in this thread. The won't all turn out but there is a sound rationale in all of them, and the exposed form of all players selected has been known and isn't highly speculative.

[1eyedog]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I wasn't trying to be a smart arse I just couldn't answer the question. I think Campbell is an excellent acquisition and he looks the most likely to be our next no. 1 ruck so I would like to play him more. I think the drafting of Stringer and the acquisition of Crameri puts enormous pressure on Dickson. I can't see him being retained beyond next year. Darley was a gun junior and makes good decisions and I think he has plenty of upside.

To be honest I see Stevens as a workhorse who lacks good decision making and skills. He's a poor mans Matty Boyd and given the plethora of inside kids we have he may struggle to be best 22 next year. Especially if Honeychurch and Rat come on the way we hope they will. I think Young has been excellent, a classic utility with good endurance, height and decision making and he's only 21 - a keeper.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

On Darley, he is still only slightly built but his disposal by foot looks pretty good to me. In gusty conditions down at Williamstown yesterday he was one of few who was regularly hitting the right target.

Particularly in the last Darley was good.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I agree with one eye, it's hard to gage at this stage.
I mean the only mature aged player is Goodes.
I think the tiges have gone to far with mature aged rejects.
Fuller looked to me like he's in between learning a defensive side for the first time, and playing his SANFL way.
Time will tell

[jeemak]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

Great summary Slim.

Just on Brett Goodes, if we hadn't butchered out first round pick in 2009 on Christian Howard, we would not have had to shore up a critical area of weakness with a 29yo in 2013. Actually we could have gotten Goodes as a rookie back then and used our first pick on, you know, someone like Fyfe or Carlisle, players that actually had form and history at the highest level in U18's.

I can't fault any of the selections mentioned in this thread. The won't all turn out but there is a sound rationale in all of them, and the exposed form of all players selected has been known and isn't highly speculative.

I think we can all acknowledge Howard in the first round of 2009 was an ordinary selection (happy for him to be taken in a later round, but FFS, why in the first?), but realistically, the Goodes selection had nothing to do with the former failing. Howard at the age of 22 was never going to fill the spot on the list Goodes did as a 29 year old to steer our backline and list through in terms of leadership. IMO, you can't tie the two together notwithstanding Howard's lack of development since being drafted.

[jeemak]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

Dickson is one of only two players on our list to have kicked six goals in a game, and that was on the back of being slugged down to the reserves due to a lack of intensity and reassessing his game to make himself relevant. I don't think we've seen the back of him, as we become a better team with better movement we'll be able to afford a specialist forward pocket and I think he can be that player. Agree he struggles when charged with playing up the ground.

Darley and Fuller are much too untried to tell. The latter will have to spend the year proving himself at the lower level, but if he's good enough he'll get a chance. The former is the same. We shouldn't be drafting players with the thought process they should immediately be making an impact as it's completely contradictory to the philosophy we have taken to the rest of the playing group to this point. We need to be consistent.

Irrespective of the above, I wouldn't have listed Goodes. I understand the reasons why he was listed, and I can see the benefit in it to an extent. I just don't think over the course of a season where injuries and form can play a massive part in how a developing list presents, that he is valuable holistically.

Overall I've been happy with the list management since Macca took over.

[Bornadog]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

Overall I've been happy with the list management since Macca took over.

I think more to the point, list management has improved since we appointed a list manager.

[KT31]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I think more to the point, list management has improved since we appointed a list manager.

I agree this has been the difference, it has freed up B.Mac to Coach and we have somebody of quality, in J.Mac, full time monitoring our list.

[Bornadog]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I agree this has been the difference, it has freed up B.Mac to Coach and we have somebody of quality, in J.Mac, full time monitoring our list.

Fantasia was the one doing list management, player contracts etc, as well as the football managers role. Too much for one person, plus he sucked at it.

[GVGjr]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I agree this has been the difference, it has freed up B.Mac to Coach and we have somebody of quality, in J.Mac, full time monitoring our list.

From my understanding, B-Mac is more involved with recruitment than I think people are aware of. Yes we have a recruiting manager and a list manager (contracts, list management objectives and profiles etc) but players won't be given contract extensions without Macca's approval nor will trades be made without his input. In conjunction with the football department he has also set the standards and the philosophies on the whole recruitment process including the development of players arriving at the club.

It's certainly a great for the club to have J-Mac and the recruiting team but Macca hasn't just distanced himself from that.

[Sedat]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I think we can all acknowledge Howard in the first round of 2009 was an ordinary selection (happy for him to be taken in a later round, but FFS, why in the first?), but realistically, the Goodes selection had nothing to do with the former failing. Howard at the age of 22 was never going to fill the spot on the list Goodes did as a 29 year old to steer our backline and list through in terms of leadership. IMO, you can't tie the two together notwithstanding Howard's lack of development since being drafted.

Would we have gotten a 29yo Goodes in 2013 if the Howard selection in 2009 had worked as was hoped and he became an AFL standard running half back to replace Gilbs? We only got Goodes last year because Howard has failed to become the player we needed, so an area of our list (running half backs) needed urgent bolstering.

[Bornadog]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

It's certainly a great for the club to have J-Mac and the recruiting team but Macca hasn't just distanced himself from that.

I doubt that would happen at any club. The coaches as a group would review the players and put forward suggestions on delisting, renewing and types of players they want in the future. I doubt it comes down to just one person.

[jeemak]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

Would we have gotten a 29yo Goodes in 2013 if the Howard selection in 2009 had worked as was hoped and he became an AFL standard running half back to replace Gilbs? We only got Goodes last year because Howard has failed to become the player we needed, so an area of our list (running half backs) needed urgent bolstering.

Yes we would have, I think.

Having come into the system needing immediate surgery (known to the club) and a lot of development Howard was always likely to take a while. Further injuries and poor form have held him back more than any of us would have hoped.

The likelihood of him being up to a standard where we wouldn't have been able to make a very good case for needing more experience in defense and across the list in general until some of our younger players developed would have been pretty small.

That's moot to a point anyway, particularly if you believe the detailed rationale for taking either Prismal or Goodes as mature age rookies.

[stefoid]

Re: Did we waste Draft Picks by picking Rejects from other clubs?

I dont care where we get our fringe / development players from, as long as we refresh them quicker - Im firmly of the opinion that quality players reveal themselves early and having a fringe player who shows nothing on the list for more than two years is poor list management.

We could and should have had three new players on the rookie list this year - one of them might have been the next Dahlhaus, Morris, or Boyd, but we will never know. We do know that Greenwood, Austin and Redpath wont be.