Form guide

[azabob]

Re: Form guide

We are seeing the otherside to the rebuild.

When Eade took over he went straight out attacking exciting football. McCartney is going the complete opposite.

[Ozza]

Re: Form guide

Sometimes the longest of long-term projects bear no fruit at all. Norf have been rebuilding for 6 years and have not won a final. Richmond likewise. Carlton have a war-chest of first-round picks and look like they are ready for another rebuild after the current one didn't even get them to a single PF.
The 'rebuild from the ground up' approach is sound on paper but I don't want the club to completely ignore results as well. Testing our methods in the heat of battle is the ultimate measurement of progress, so we should be expecting results to continue in an upward direction. it shouldn't be panic stations but it is still ok to be unhappy with the lack of results this season to date.

Interesting in the context of the 'style of play' discussion. All three examples' (North, Richmond and Carlton) major critique, is that they weren't able to defend well enough. They could/can score - but have been too easy to score against.

Arguably, the better rebuilds have been from teams that have built their defensive game first - and then as they progressed and improved everywhere, began to score on the back of that. Admittedly, some of those teams have had a couple of star forwards who made them more potent - whereas our forwardline is a work in progress that we are developing.

[Mofra]

Re: Form guide

Arguably, the better rebuilds have been from teams that have built their defensive game first - and then as they progressed and improved everywhere, began to score on the back of that. Admittedly, some of those teams have had a couple of star forwards who made them more potent - whereas our forwardline is a work in progress that we are developing.

Interesting from that perspective, especially considering Eade basically built a back 6 before anything else and spent a whole season letting them just play (and often, getting belted).

We're ignoring the forward & defense mantra by building from "the inside out", although it does raise the question of how this will translate into list management given it's far easier to find quality mids than it is to find quality talls.

[Bornadog]

Re: Form guide

Going through the stats which Macca talked about after his press conference he said he is happy with all the stats accept the scores of course.

I had a quick look at the season so far and we are top 5 in almost all the stats that matter (except scoring), like contested poss., stoppages, centre clearances (top 2), etc. However, the worrying ones are rebound 50's, contested marks and marks in general where we sit near the bottom and inside 50.

Against Eseendon we smashed them with disposals, cont.poss, but the differential in marks was hugely in their favour.

The forward line needs to gel together, but I still believe its the delivery that is the problem

[Sedat]

Re: Form guide

Interesting in the context of the 'style of play' discussion. All three examples' (North, Richmond and Carlton) major critique, is that they weren't able to defend well enough. They could/can score - but have been too easy to score against.

Arguably, the better rebuilds have been from teams that have built their defensive game first - and then as they progressed and improved everywhere, began to score on the back of that. Admittedly, some of those teams have had a couple of star forwards who made them more potent - whereas our forwardline is a work in progress that we are developing.

Good observations. St Kilda under Lyon certainly went down that path as did Hawthorn under Clarko. But it didn't take them longer than 3 years to see major progress (ie: finals victories, top 4 finishes and in Hawthorn's case a premiership ahead of schedule).

I'm mindful that we need to be patient with the development of our list and gameplan but I'm also concerned that we aren't developing both at a quicker rate. Finals should really be the goal in 2015 (chronic injuries permitting) and the goal after that should be a sustained run of finals footy as per Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood. I suspect that BMac would have this as a goal for the team behind closed doors and would probably be just as frustrated with the last 3 weeks as the fans appear to be.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Form guide

Interesting in the context of the 'style of play' discussion. All three examples' (North, Richmond and Carlton) major critique, is that they weren't able to defend well enough. They could/can score - but have been too easy to score against.

Arguably, the better rebuilds have been from teams that have built their defensive game first - and then as they progressed and improved everywhere, began to score on the back of that. Admittedly, some of those teams have had a couple of star forwards who made them more potent - whereas our forwardline is a work in progress that we are developing.

Following Hawthorns progress we should essentially be pushing for the top 8 this year but just falling short. And i would say this is what a lot of us expected.

-Hawthorn lost touch with the top 8 in 2003 (they also did in 02 but didnt commence the rebuild until after the 03 season). Comparatively we lost touch in 2011.

-They then hit rock bottom in 2004 (2012 for us)
-They struggled again in 2005 (our 2013)
-They then climbed the ladder in 2006 to 11th (this year for us)
-They then made finals in 2007 (our 2015)
-They won the flag in 2008 (our 2016) which most viewed as an over achievement

We're not fairing too badly but we need to improve as the season progresses and be expecting to make finals next year

[Bornadog]

Re: Form guide

Good observations. St Kilda under Lyon certainly went down that path as did Hawthorn under Clarko. But it didn't take them longer than 3 years to see major progress (ie: finals victories, top 4 finishes and in Hawthorn's case a premiership ahead of schedule).

I'm mindful that we need to be patient with the development of our list and gameplan but I'm also concerned that we aren't developing both at a quicker rate. Finals should really be the goal in 2015 (chronic injuries permitting) and the goal after that should be a sustained run of finals footy as per Geelong, Hawthorn and Collingwood. I suspect that BMac would have this as a goal for the team behind closed doors and would probably be just as frustrated with the last 3 weeks as the fans appear to be.

Looking at Macca's press conferences, he looks like he is getting very impatient and frustrated by what the players are doing out there. In particular he mentioned we shouldn't have little blokes flying for marks in the forward line (insert Hunter), when the big blokes should have positioned themselves in the right spot.

He also said you can be assured the blokes playing out there won't be the same 22 taking us forward.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Re: Form guide

Going through the stats which Macca talked about after his press conference he said he is happy with all the stats accept the scores of course.

I had a quick look at the season so far and we are top 5 in almost all the stats that matter (except scoring), like contested poss., stoppages, centre clearances (top 2), etc. However, the worrying ones are rebound 50's, contested marks and marks in general where we sit near the bottom and inside 50.

Against Eseendon we smashed them with disposals, cont.poss, but the differential in marks was hugely in their favour.

The forward line needs to gel together, but I still believe its the delivery that is the problem

Stats count for little when you have so many players down on form as we did against Essendon. I counted at least seven, including Jones, Dickson, Crameri, Williams, Talia, JJ and Stevens that were below par, which simply means that the others have to pick up the slack. We were in our losses to North, Carlton, Adelaide and Essendon for periods of each of these games but lacked the intensity to put 4 quarters together. This is what really frustrates our supporter base.

[westdog54]

Re: Form guide

Following Hawthorns progress we should essentially be pushing for the top 8 this year but just falling short. And i would say this is what a lot of us expected.

-Hawthorn lost touch with the top 8 in 2003 (they also did in 02 but didnt commence the rebuild until after the 03 season). Comparatively we lost touch in 2011.

-They then hit rock bottom in 2004 (2012 for us)
-They struggled again in 2005 (our 2013)
-They then climbed the ladder in 2006 to 11th (this year for us)
-They then made finals in 2007 (our 2015)
-They won the flag in 2008 (our 2016) which most viewed as an over achievement

We're not fairing too badly but we need to improve as the season progresses and be expecting to make finals next year

2008 probably was an over achievement for Hawthorn but I would make the argument that they didn't make the most out of their successful era. They blew it in the 2011 prelim and again the next year in the granny against the Swans.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Re: Form guide

Looking at Macca's press conferences, he looks like he is getting very impatient and frustrated by what the players are doing out there. In particular he mentioned we shouldn't have little blokes flying for marks in the forward line (insert Hunter), when the big blokes should have positioned themselves in the right spot.

He also said you can be assured the blokes playing out there won't be the same 22 taking us forward.

Did he say this?

[Bornadog]

Re: Form guide

Did he say this?

Have a listen to it.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2014-05-04/press-conference-mccartney-post-match-rd7

[Sedat]

Re: Form guide

2008 probably was an over achievement for Hawthorn but I would make the argument that they didn't make the most out of their successful era. They blew it in the 2011 prelim and again the next year in the granny against the Swans.

I'd love to blow it by only winning 2 flags in a successful era.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Form guide

Following Hawthorns progress we should essentially be pushing for the top 8 this year but just falling short. And i would say this is what a lot of us expected.

-Hawthorn lost touch with the top 8 in 2003 (they also did in 02 but didnt commence the rebuild until after the 03 season). Comparatively we lost touch in 2011.

-They then hit rock bottom in 2004 (2012 for us)
-They struggled again in 2005 (our 2013)
-They then climbed the ladder in 2006 to 11th (this year for us)
-They then made finals in 2007 (our 2015)
-They won the flag in 2008 (our 2016) which most viewed as an over achievement

We're not fairing too badly but we need to improve as the season progresses and be expecting to make finals next year

They also massacred the 04 draft Buddy, roughy and Lewis. They must give a special thank you card to norf for taking Hay, and Thompson ( was good for them) and the trade of Gibson and now Hale.

[Hot_Doggies]

Re: Form guide

Think it was more of a "we will keep making changes until we find the best 22" rather than "player a and b are gone"