Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

[bulldogtragic]

We've got one game up, being tomorrow. But as the ladder stands bottom of the ladder is 3 wins. We're not in the spoon spot right now owing to percentage only.

If the Collingwood's, Sydneys, Hawks, Cats, Ports etc, beat us than we are unfortunately in contention. If they beat us badly, our percentage may not save us a spoon.

In lieu of talking about this issue sporadically over multiple threads, this is it's home. I'm hoping the players will respond, but in being as objective as I can, I wouldn't tip us except for maybe the Saints and maybe GWS in Round 23 (and GWS this week is much better than us last week). I think that match against GWS looks like it may be a good opportunity for Roughy and Morris to sell our club to Patton, Cameron or Boyd.

If we do land the spoon, I hope we then go all out. Pick 1 on the table to GWS, offer multiple opposition players good salaries with the option to come via that trade and get another to walk with pick 1 PSD.

Not too much fun to think about, but we are equal last on points right now with a tough back season. As much pressure as there is on the club now or pressure on our players to avoid the spoon, JMac and the recruiters will be under the pump to determine potentially grand final changing decisions like 'Patton or McCartin' if those variables are apparent. We just can't get those decisions wrong.

[Ozza]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Wouldn't be a day ending in 'Y' without a new negative thread hey BT !

[azabob]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Wouldn't be a day ending in 'Y' without a new negative thread hey BT !

There is always 'tomorrow' Ozza!

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Wouldn't be a day ending in 'Y' without a new negative thread hey BT !

Is it not a fact that we are equal bottom on points?

If that is the case, can not there be discussion about the issues that surround it? That we are bottom is the unpleasant or negative thing, not being allowed to discuss it.

To that end, I'm not too sure what other threads you refer to. Is the light hearted one about interstate players, talking positively and philosophically about being bulldog, favourite non top line players, the best goal you ever kicked? Or the vent here thread to centralise comments? I'm not sure what other threads constitute such a comment, but do please let me know.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

At the risk of discussing realistic scenarios, that is if 18th occurred, Webby's suggestion of allowing Griffen out of his contract could be interesting, if it could be done like Del Santo as the compensation would likely be pick 2. That is, not selling him, but being open to listening to hypotheticals in which Griffen is allowed to do as he wishes, moreover if the pick and free salary cap secured something else the club wanted. Letting a Griffen walk for pick 6 or 7 is nowhere near what he's worth, but picks 1 & 2 is a fascinating thought bubble, especially if another top line player walks with PSD 1. It's in the less realistic basket, but thinking and discussing aspects of certain possibilities ought not be negative, despite 18th being unpleasant to think of. Very unpleasant.

[Ozza]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Yes it's a fact we are equal bottom on points. There are 6 teams with 3 wins.
I don't really see it as necessary to be speculating on whether 'spoon is coming' 11 weeks out from the end of the season.
The negativity is pretty bloody relentless, whether it's the rejuvenated 'pack your bags' thread, selection, crameri, an element of a video about Darley, Gia, and many many more topics.

I get that there is plenty to be negative about right at the moment- I really do. I just reckon it's becoming a sport on here - and on a day where plenty of blokes in our VFL team that we've looking for improvement from all stepped up to the plate and beat the top side, that it was a good day. So I jump on here for a look and the first thing I see is a thread about us winning the spoon, so I laughed and thought 'of course! Another mood killer!'.

I'm not telling you what to write or what not to write - or anyone else for that matter. I don't definitely don't want to go 15 rounds plus time on about it either. I just personally find it tedious.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Maybe you misunderstand me:

- I'm not negative on Gia, I'm suggesting the strategy to continually use him as a sub is open to question, nay, even flawed. Having a critical opinion isn't negative. I have made it clear Gia isn't to blame, I have tried to be clear and concise and have been supported by many more than have disagreed with me. If people weren't interested in having well thought out discussions where we may disagree, we wouldn't discuss them. But we are, so clearly it's somewhat interesting.

- I have no idea on Crameri negativity. I've been a supporter of his since day one. I have some understanding of various aspects of law in this area, and have given my thoughts about aspects of this. I genuinely fail to see anything I've said on Stew is negative. If the thought of a suspension isn't what you want to hear, it doesn't mean I'm being negative. If you want me to openly lie and tell you he's getting off I can't I'm sorry, Essendon have burnt him badly and I hope for the best with him. But an athlete who died in hospital and was a given a doping drug to revive him was initially suspended for 2 years, and is the only WADA appeal to be successful to my knowledge. He succeeded on the basis he would have stayed dead if not for it and was unconscious at the time.

- There are 3 pages of general unease about the lack of team changes, yet I'm called out. I think that's unfair, but that's free speech I guess.

- Again, the Darley thread has half a dozen similar views, yet I'm called out. As above.

- For god sake, the rejuvenated bags thread... Please go back to the bumping post. Please read it, copy it and post it here. The thread has at very stages encapsulated varying sentiment... Read the posts from mods after my bump explaining that it was clear the purpose for the bump, and not designed for negativity. Clearly you didn't read the bump post and posts after it, I think Westdog54 made it clear.... If people didn't want to discuss it, there wouldn't have been 200 new posts!!!

Discussing a spoon potential in and of itself is not negative. It throws up many issues that a rolling discussion over the remainder of the season. It might be unpleasant thing like pressure on players or coaches, but it might also throw up issues like Webby has voiced around our (potential) Free Agents in terms of compensation. As we move towards round 23, against GWS, it provides a place to again have rolling conversation about where we might be looking in terms of debates like going for Wright or McCartin, or trading a pick 1 for say, Jon Patton. In the history of our club, I can't recall any list manager going to the CEO or Board and telling them we are trading Pick 1. By not discussing this at all until such time as just before the trade period denies people interested in such issues the ability to think the matters through. Matters change from week to week, last weeks bad ideas could be next weeks good ideas.

By calling me out on a handful if things I strongly contend are not negative, when others are not seems selective, if not unfair. You also fail to mention numerous light hearted fun threads, and two very, very positive threads about being proud of our club, and being proud of the off field people who donate to keep us alive. "And many, many more topics".

But that's fine you equate things that are critical or unpleasant as being negative. I don't. We disagree. We move on.

[Dogs 24/7]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Is it not a fact that we are equal bottom on points?

If that is the case, can not there be discussion about the issues that surround it? That we are bottom is the unpleasant or negative thing, not being allowed to discuss it.

To that end, I'm not too sure what other threads you refer to. Is the light hearted one about interstate players, talking positively and philosophically about being bulldog, favourite non top line players, the best goal you ever kicked? Or the vent here thread to centralise comments? I'm not sure what other threads constitute such a comment, but do please let me know.

is it not a fact that you have tried to pot McCartney after every loss in a roundabout way?not you per say because you seem more adept at loading the gun for others rather than firing the bullets yourself. death by a 1,000 cuts seems to be your MO.
It doesnt matter if its Guido and his role as a sub or the development of players or the Austin upgrade or bumping the sack McCartney thread you are very adept at swinging it back to or pointing it towards McCartney. in this current effort even the thread title is a dig at the club. You had a choice to have a positive or a negative theme to the thread but predictably chose the latter.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

is it not a fact that you have tried to pot McCartney after every loss in a roundabout way?not you per say because you seem more adept at loading the gun for others rather than firing the bullets yourself. death by a 1,000 cuts seems to be your MO.
It doesnt matter if its Guido and his role as a sub or the development of players or the Austin upgrade or bumping the sack McCartney thread you are very adept at swinging it back to or pointing it towards McCartney. in this current effort even the thread title is a dig at the club. You had a choice to have a positive or a negative theme to the thread but predictably chose the latter.

I have no issue with Gia, feel free to copy comments of mine which are not a critical and thoughtful as to strategy. Do any other posters support this?

Again, feel free to copy the bumping post from the bags thread and comments from mods shortly after it.

The media have questioned Macca for two weeks pretty solidly. Can I not ask questions that the media are asking?

I feel the guns/cuts comment is exceedingly unfair. When I'm asked for an opinion I give it, generally I will try to explain why I might hold a different view. That you feel you couldn't send me a PM is ungracious and unfair. I love this club and have put my money where my mouth is and will until I die. That we disagree from time to time on how we get to the successful end goal is healthy. Discussion and debate encourages thinking, it can either reinforce what we think we are doing is great, or it might make us think about other things I hadn't considered. Ie, Webby highlighting trading senior players et al was not in my mind, but I like that others can make me think about a range of issues.

As per above, the selective neglect to mention the many other positive contributions is unfair. I ask questions, I share opinion and if other posters didn't want to post 200 times on the one thread, they didn't have to. But they did and the conversation has been intelligent and thought provoking. But if you want to ask me if I would re-signed Macca, I told someone on a PM this week I would have, but on better terms from the clubs perspective because we bought at the high water mark. I don't do a guns or cuts, feel free not to pot me next time but to ask me if you feel I'm not being direct enough for you.

And for the record, I don't want the spoon. I want to win every week in, and week out. I want the 500 kids in the cheer squad to follow in our traditions and be ambassadors for everything we hold dear. I want Macca to be the next and second premiership coach and to see our father sons win a medal and fill the void that their dad's never got to experience, especially Libba since he kicked the sealing goal in 1997.

[boydogs]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Second post in the game day prediction thread:

Lots and lots
BOG Austin
First Goal Roughead

Just turns what should be a fun thread trying to guess what will happen into a depressing one

[Remi Moses]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Hasn't this been done to death ?
Yes, we are equal bottom ! Along with a top 4 fancy Richmond( now that's regression)
Carlton are in there as well with 4 wins.( hardly worthy of a million dollar finishing coach) and a team at 11'o'clock!
You can lock it in that Stkilda this time next year will be under the blowtorch.We may finish bottom ( I don't think so)
To be honest 16th or 18th isn't going to make much difference to our membership numbers.

[Twodogs]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Is now a good time to mention I've had a feeling since a few weeks into the season that we'd win the wooden spoon?

[jeemak]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Wouldn't be a day ending in 'Y' without a new negative thread hey BT !

Well played.

[westdog54]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

Its a fair discussion to have. The way we are playing at the moment we barely look like winning a game with the run home we have.

What we do if it pans out is an important discussion to have. There are a lot of drafting and list management issues to discuss.

[ledge]

Re: Now: Equal Bottom of The Ladder on Points (Spoon coming?)

I would take mc cartin and if we can get a big name player like Patton or Frawley, we get a player ready to go now and one to come on in a year or so