Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

[GVGjr]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

What makes anyone think Campbell can ruck 85% of an AFL game by himself?

I think he would struggle with it. His fitness has improved but I think much more than 70% game time would test him.

[Rocco Jones]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

It's past BigFooty-esque....it's ####### ridiculous.

Look I really don't like criticising the opinion of others, I just really struggle with how much negativity he is facing. Just a few things:
- I know you can't live off past glories but he is a reigning AA ruck man. Also, has shown massive loyalty to the club (I know that doesn't save him from being dropped, just maybe less barbs)
- He had a very limited pre-season
- Takes the 1st ruck burden on like no other ruck man.

[Bornadog]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

I don't like to be critical of other posters opinion but the drop Will/just play as many kids as possible really is BigFooty-esque.

I really don't get the theory that playing as many kids as possible is best for development. When you play as many kids as possible it actually exposes them. You need senior players to help out. A good example the affect of Griff being out on Libba.

You have to have the right balance of young and old. Melbourne went too far in the past couple of years and have struggled to develop the younger players. We only had 4 players with more than 150 games, but not many between 100 to 150 (I think 2).

I think our balance will better in the next year or so.

[G-Mo77]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

If we play Will and Tom together it cannot be with Campbell just going into the ruck when Will has to rest. That is terrible for Tom as it really isn't his style. I like the idea of helping to develop Campbell rucking alongside Will and rotating them up forward. The Dees pinched a couple of goals from Jamar and Gawn despite neither being quality forward.

If they play together then yeah this is how I'd like it to happen. In the past Campbell has came in and rucked a small percentage while Will has had the lions share. Campbell IMO has got to get some more time and responsibility as the #1 ruck. If that means give him more time with Will or a stint without Will I'm all for that.

I don't like to be critical of other posters opinion but the drop Will/just play as many kids as possible really is BigFooty-esque.

I really don't get the theory that playing as many kids as possible is best for development. When you play as many kids as possible it actually exposes them. You need senior players to help out. A good example the affect of Griff being out on Libba.

That's disappointing to read. Not everyone is blindly throwing his name out there and saying drop him. Most have had valid arguments and reasoning.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

I think we still are not addressing our weaknesses which is a lack of quality marking options/talls.

Down at the cattery the ground is narrower and longer than the Melbourne grounds, it's more like Subiaco,
which means less room to find space on the wings, easier to zone defence the space 1 kick ahead, forcing you to kick to a contest.

As we are the worst contested marking side in the competition this is a problem. Add to this Jones would get well and truly worked over by the Geelong defenders.

We need to be able to break lines quickly through the middle and have go to marking options like a Campbell and/or Redpath that at least can bring the ball to ground and not let their opponent take an uncontested mark.

If we go with the smaller Stringer, Jones, Grant forward combo this week we will get smashed.

Will Also struggle if we can't get Roughead on Hawkins.


In: Campbell, Redpath

out: Jones, Minson (don't want to drop him but perhaps needs a spell)

[SlimPickens]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

Look I really don't like criticising the opinion of others, I just really struggle with how much negativity he is facing. Just a few things:
- I know you can't live off past glories but he is a reigning AA ruck man. Also, has shown massive loyalty to the club (I know that doesn't save him from being dropped, just maybe less barbs)
- He had a very limited pre-season
- Takes the 1st ruck burden on like no other ruck man.

Will isn't beyond criticism however. He is having a pretty ordinary season, the reasons you are giving will certainly contribute but I think by round 15 we should be expecting better performances. The game against the Pies he was very good but since then has struggled. I've seen Tom Campbell play every game this year, his VFL form has been outstanding (massive chance to win the Liston)and more then any player on our list he deserves a game in the senior team.

I'm not saying drop Will but I would like to see Campbell get a run at AFL level as a ruckman. So if that means play Will forward for a week or two and pinch hit in the ruck i'd say do it.

[Bornadog]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

Will isn't beyond criticism however. He is having a pretty ordinary season, the reasons you are giving will certainly contribute but I think by round 15 we should be expecting better performances. The game against the Pies he was very good but since then has struggled. I've seen Tom Campbell play every game this year, his VFL form has been outstanding (massive chance to win the Liston)and more then any player on our list he deserves a game in the senior team.

I'm not saying drop Will but I would like to see Campbell get a run at AFL level as a ruckman. So if that means play Will forward for a week or two and pinch hit in the ruck i'd say do it.

Why not share the ruck duties 50/50 like Melbourne did. I think it can work, we can't have Will being double tagged every week.

[Ozza]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

I think the majority of posters don't want Will dropped - but would like to see either Campbell (in most cases) or Cordy, brought in to the side as ruck support/forward.

Overall - I would like to see Campbell come in to the side...but I must say - just not this week v Geelong (who have weak ruckman, and defend tall forward structures well).

[LostDoggy]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

I think the majority of posters don't want Will dropped - but would like to see either Campbell (in most cases) or Cordy, brought in to the side as ruck support/forward.

Overall - I would like to see Campbell come in to the side...but I must say - just not this week v Geelong (who have weak ruckman, and defend tall forward structures well).

I can't agree with your take on the Cat's ruckmen there, Ozza. Simpson is a good, hard tap ruckman and Blicavs is one of the best athletes in the competition. I think they will give whoever plays plenty to worry about.

[SlimPickens]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

Why not share the ruck duties 50/50 like Melbourne did. I think it can work, we can't have Will being double tagged every week.

It's an interesting prospect but realistically we lauded Wills performance last year as a lone ruckman and he was honoured with all Australian selection and a top 3 in the B and F. He is doing a similar amount this year and is not performing to the same level..

[jazzadogs]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

Some stats from the Footscray game (bear in mind, played in terrible conditions at Simonds Stadium which will be very similar to the conditions on Sunday), for those interested:

Tom Campbell (145): 15K, 10HB, 12M, 4T, 25HO, 1G

Tom Young (123): 18K, 7HB, 12M, 5T

Michael Talia (93): 18K, 2HB, 9M, 2T

Ayce Cordy (74): 6K, 4HB, 2M, 4T, 30HO

Jason Johannisen (73): 12K, 6HB, 4M, 3T, 1G

Brett Goodes (71): 8K, 9HB, 2M, 5T, 2G

Christian Howard (69): 12K, 5HB, 5M, 2T

Jack Redpath (67): 10K, 2HB, 6M, 3T

n.b. the numbers in brackets are their Dreamteam scores (thanks to footyprophet.com).

[F'scary]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

Some good observations Craig, people forget the amount of work poor Will has to do. In the past Crossy would be third man up in these situations. We don't seem to deploy that tactic anymore.

Talking to Will about a month ago, he says he has noticed since his AA year, oppostion rucks have been putting more work into him. He needs help.

One problem with playing two rucks is that, sorry, our #1 ruck is a lousy mark (and that includes chest marking on leads). Therefore, he cannot be rested in the FP as he scores zero as a strong grab threat.

[jeemak]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

One problem with playing two rucks is that, sorry, our #1 ruck is a lousy mark (and that includes chest marking on leads). Therefore, he cannot be rested in the FP as he scores zero as a strong grab threat.

Do you mean the Will Minson that kicked 19 goals in 2008 and 16 goals in 2009 as a ruckman that played less than 50% on the ball during those years as the second ruck?

I know he's not perfect, but since those years he basically played no time forward as we've decided that going with one ruck is our preferred option.

During those years when he did manage to kick some goals the only tall taking better defenders he had to take were Brad Johnson and Scott Welsh. Now with Liam Jones, Jake Stringer, Jarrad Grant and Stewart Crameri I think that we've got some players that ensure Will doesn't have to worry about getting the first or second best tall.

[SonofScray]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

I've been thinking about Wilbur a bit today and his form. He is a real barometer for us, I thought he was a solid contributor on the weekend but it is clear he is battling with the heavy workload he has in front of him. Battling manfully I might add, he is a good leader. It must be hard to go hammer and tong, contest after contest knowing what is front of you as a solo ruck man. Surely some self preservation creeps into your game. Opposition rucks are pushing hard forward and kicking goals, knowing they can exploit him.

I'd consider a few things:
1. Rest him. Assuming Campbell could carry his workload over a full AFL game. A bit too risky perhaps.
2. Bring in Campbell and work both through FF.
3. Play Campbell and Cordy as rotating rucks, resting Will.

Not sure what to do with Jones. I want to give Big Jack a game, Jones just didn't do enough to warrant not being in the mix for omission. On the replay though it was evident he did work hard and it was a far cry from his worst performance.

Probably have to look at Honeychurch out for Grant if he is good to go.
Roberts keeps his spot IMO. Maybe Darley moves over for Tutt if we want another offensive option.

[always right]

Re: Match Committee - Round 16 vs Geelong

Do you mean the Will Minson that kicked 19 goals in 2008 and 16 goals in 2009 as a ruckman that played less than 50% on the ball during those years as the second ruck?

I know he's not perfect, but since those years he basically played no time forward as we've decided that going with one ruck is our preferred option.

During those years when he did manage to kick some goals the only tall taking better defenders he had to take were Brad Johnson and Scott Welsh. Now with Liam Jones, Jake Stringer, Jarrad Grant and Stewart Crameri I think that we've got some players that ensure Will doesn't have to worry about getting the first or second best tall.

And not too many years ago Will was instructed to bring the ball to ground for our smaller forwards. No reason why he can't play a similar role again. We need Will to crash packs.