Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

[westdog54]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

Not against Goldstein.. Cordy would get murdered.

What about a Campbell/Cordy 60/40 approach?

[Greystache]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

Tom Young at 22 probably has a chance of making it, but he is no Ryan Hargrave (he was a very good one-on-one) or would need to improve an enormous amount. I get what you say about him being better in a good team, but we can't hang on to all the blokes who will be better in a better team. We need to get blokes in that will make the better team.

At 22 Ryan Hargrave had played 30 odd games and was routinely being toweled up by quality forwards. As the team improved the quality of his opponents dropped and he became more effective. Against good opponents he used to give away free kicks galore. Some players have the characteristics that when given the chance to play against a weak opponent they can offer the flexibility others can't. They're the type you hang onto while others make the team better. Young could be that type- rebound against against an average midsized forward, or shutdown and average third tall. Similar to Hargrave and also Mackie from Geelong, they need to be in a good team.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

At 22 Ryan Hargrave had played 30 odd games and was routinely being toweled up by quality forwards. As the team improved the quality of his opponents dropped and he became more effective. Against good opponents he used to give away free kicks galore. Some players have the characteristics that when given the chance to play against a weak opponent they can offer the flexibility others can't. They're the type you hang onto while others make the team better. Young could be that type- rebound against against an average midsized forward, or shutdown and average third tall. Similar to Hargrave and also Mackie from Geelong, they need to be in a good team.

Your memory differs to mine.
By the end of his 2nd season at senior level, Ryan was established as a senior player (38 of a possible 44) over 2 years. he also played on better opponents later not earlier. In 2004 he was given the job on Riewoldt in a rampaging St Kilda side when we knocked them over as the big upset of the year. Hargrave was 23 at the time. He only had 3 possessions (lowest of his career I think) but managed to curb the influence of the oppositions most influential player.

Hargrave was a good player before we were a good team.

[Greystache]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

Your memory differs to mine.
By the end of his 2nd season at senior level, Ryan was established as a senior player (38 of a possible 44) over 2 years. he also played on better opponents later not earlier. In 2004 he was given the job on Riewoldt in a rampaging St Kilda side when we knocked them over as the big upset of the year. Hargrave was 23 at the time. He only had 3 possessions (lowest of his career I think) but managed to curb the influence of the oppositions most influential player.

Hargrave was a good player before we were a good team.

Clearly it does, by the end of his second season he hadn't even debuted, by the time he'd played 38 games he was in his 4th season and was 22, as Young is. The saying back in the day was- Hargrave shall not play on anyone taller, when really it was he should not play on anyone quality. Young did a similar job on Jeremy Cameron just this year, I wouldn't use that as the basis of the argument he's capable of doing it routinely.

Regardless, the point is he's the type who could provide flexibility to a good team. He had 30 possessions on the weekend for Footscray and has also done some good lockdown roles as well. I think he's worth persisting with.

[Mantis]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

What about a Campbell/Cordy 60/40 approach?

I don't think Campbell would be able to deal with him either.. Goldstein is in ripping form and Minson, for all his faults is our best option to nullify his output.

[LostDoggy]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

I don't think Campbell would be able to deal with him either.. Goldstein is in ripping form and Minson, for all his faults is our best option to nullify his output.

I'm really concerned about Goldstein this week. As you say he is in ripping form, not only with his hitouts but his work around the ground has been first class.

Minson is without doubt our best option to try and atleast breakeven with hitout advantages, but around the ground I can see Will getting really exposed this week.

Goldsteins agility and work rate around the ground is much stronger than Ryder and Ryder's 20 odd touches and 2 goals (along with Carlisle) was the reason we lost that match.

Having said that I'm not sure a Campbell/Cordy combo would help the around the ground issue.

[Bornadog]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

I don't think Campbell would be able to deal with him either.. Goldstein is in ripping form and Minson, for all his faults is our best option to nullify his output.

Depends whether we care if we win or lose, or do we just continue on the development path.

[Sedat]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

At 22 Ryan Hargrave had played 30 odd games and was routinely being toweled up by quality forwards. As the team improved the quality of his opponents dropped and he became more effective. Against good opponents he used to give away free kicks galore. Some players have the characteristics that when given the chance to play against a weak opponent they can offer the flexibility others can't. They're the type you hang onto while others make the team better. Young could be that type- rebound against against an average midsized forward, or shutdown and average third tall. Similar to Hargrave and also Mackie from Geelong, they need to be in a good team.

Mackie used to be the whipping boy for Geelong supporters as late as early 2007. When we beat Geelong in Round 1 that season (when Johnno kicked 8), the Cat fans were relentless in their ridicule of Mackie. Shaggy also struggled in the first few seasons of his career at the Dogs, so all is not lost yet for Tom Young to develop into that similar type - he certainly needs to establish himself in the best 18 at the club next year.

[Greystache]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

Mackie used to be the whipping boy for Geelong supporters as late as early 2007. When we beat Geelong in Round 1 that season (when Johnno kicked 8), the Cat fans were relentless in their ridicule of Mackie. Shaggy also struggled in the first few seasons of his career at the Dogs, so all is not lost yet for Tom Young to develop into that similar type - he certainly needs to establish himself in the best 18 at the club next year.

Mackie was also the first player dropped when they had a brief period of struggle in 2010. Player's like that can be valuable in a good team, they just get exposed quickly in a poor one.

[Bornadog]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

Mackie used to be the whipping boy for Geelong supporters as late as early 2007. When we beat Geelong in Round 1 that season (when Johnno kicked 8), the Cat fans were relentless in their ridicule of Mackie. Shaggy also struggled in the first few seasons of his career at the Dogs, so all is not lost yet for Tom Young to develop into that similar type - he certainly needs to establish himself in the best 18 at the club next year.

When assessing Shaggy, you have to look at what the coach asked him to do, ie pickup players that are taller and stronger than he was.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

Clearly it does, by the end of his second season he hadn't even debuted, by the time he'd played 38 games he was in his 4th season and was 22, as Young is. The saying back in the day was- Hargrave shall not play on anyone taller, when really it was he should not play on anyone quality. Young did a similar job on Jeremy Cameron just this year, I wouldn't use that as the basis of the argument he's capable of doing it routinely.

Regardless, the point is he's the type who could provide flexibility to a good team. He had 30 possessions on the weekend for Footscray and has also done some good lockdown roles as well. I think he's worth persisting with.

Just a difference of interpretation. I was referring to the second season of actually playing at senior level and had ignored the previous 2 years after he had been drafted. Years that had been marred by serious illness. Young certailnly has not established himself as Hargrave had done at the same age.

[Bornadog]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

Wood out for the season, so looks like at least one change this week.

[jeemak]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

In - Young
Out - Wood

No other changes unless one of the younger guys miss due to fatigue or Stringer misses because of the impending birth of his child. Grant unlucky, but just needs to put his hand up again.

[F'scary]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

In - Young
Out - Wood

No other changes unless one of the younger guys miss due to fatigue or Stringer misses because of the impending birth of his child. Grant unlucky, but just needs to put his hand up again.

Would be interested in seeing Young in the seniors again. He's played some good games in his short career with us.

[Twodogs]

Re: Match Committee - Round 21 vs North Melbourne

I hope Tom plays 3 blinders.