Our Worrying Defence

[stefoid]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

There is much talk about Carlisle on the BF board. Dogs supporter, prefers to play in defence, hasnt resigned yet, and of course there would be an offer on the table from half a dozen clubs, including us. Im not willing to discount it after the Tom Boyd trade.

Carlisle and Roughead have every tall man position covered between them. Talk about versatile.

In a perfect world you could swing Roughead or Carlilse to FF and let Boyd play CHF where he could be involved in more 1:1 contests and have a greater influence on general play.

[lemmon]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

There is much talk about Carlisle on the BF board. Dogs supporter, prefers to play in defence, hasnt resigned yet, and of course there would be an offer on the table from half a dozen clubs, including us. Im not willing to discount it after the Tom Boyd trade.

Carlisle and Roughead have every tall man position covered between them. Talk about versatile.

In a perfect world you could swing Roughead or Carlilse to FF and let Boyd play CHF where he could be involved in more 1:1 contests and have a greater influence on general play.

Going to cost us our first rounder and a good player I'd have thought, it's a hell of a lot to pay for a guy you'd have to play as your real gorilla full back when we already have one. I appreciate the free Roughy up argument but the trade really depends on Roughead than being able to make it as a forward/second ruck which at best has been untested, at worst has been a failure.

Basically what I'm saying is for the trade to be a win we'd need Carlisle to become an excellent full back and have Roughead make an impact in whatever spot he's moved to, otherwise we're selling a fair amount to get another fairly similar version of the guy we already have.

[stefoid]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

Going to cost us our first rounder and a good player I'd have thought, it's a hell of a lot to pay for a guy you'd have to play as your real gorilla full back when we already have one. I appreciate the free Roughy up argument but the trade really depends on Roughead than being able to make it as a forward/second ruck which at best has been untested, at worst has been a failure.

Basically what I'm saying is for the trade to be a win we'd need Carlisle to become an excellent full back and have Roughead make an impact in whatever spot he's moved to, otherwise we're selling a fair amount to get another fairly similar version of the guy we already have.

Carlisle plays CHB in defence. So Talia could go to FB. Would enable us to play Roughead wherever we need him - back ruck or forward.

[lemmon]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

Carlisle plays CHB in defence. So Talia could go to FB. Would enable us to play Roughead wherever we need him - back ruck or forward.

It's just working on the assumption that Roughy becomes a good ruckman or forward which we haven't seen

[josie]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

From what little I've seen of Carlisle he is a quicker, better backman than Roughy, and is also more than handy up forward.

I'd love to have him at the Dogs. If that means Roughy plays elsewhere, so be it.

[lemmon]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

From what little I've seen of Carlisle he is a quicker, better backman than Roughy, and is also more than handy up forward.

I'd love to have him at the Dogs. If that means Roughy plays elsewhere, so be it.

Make no mistake I'd love Carlisle but if the price is our first rounder and Hrovat does that change things? If there's a good young CHB in the draft I'd rather we went back to that well rather than pay a premium

[Greystache]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

Make no mistake I'd love Carlisle but if the price is our first rounder and Hrovat does that change things? If there's a good young CHB in the draft I'd rather we went back to that well rather than pay a premium

That would be market rate and I'd happily pay it. We could just as easily use our first round pick on a key defender that is either average or worse a complete bust. A 23 Carlisle is a much safer bet.

[jeemak]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

I'd happily offer a first round pick and Hrovat for Carlisle as well.

Carlisle, Roughead and Talia as our three tall defenders would be a dream come true.

Not all of them are going to have a good game every week, and some of them are going to struggle with planned match ups which is why we need coverage in the area. As it stands now, we don't have enough flexibility down back to cover the best and most diverse forward lines.

If Hamling can come along as Morris slows down, and we had these backs at our disposal then of course you could throw Roughead and Carlisle forward from time to time depending on the opposition.

[Remi Moses]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

Dealing with Essendon is like negotiating with overseas terror organisations .
Carlisle won't be coming over

[Webby]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

Geez, developing a player like Frost from Collingwood would be great. He's a gem.

[Greystache]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

Geez, developing a player like Frost from Collingwood would be great. He's a gem.

We were keen on him but decided not to draft him because of injury concerns. Probably a bit tall for us really.

[stefoid]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

Dealing with Essendon is like negotiating with overseas terror organisations .
Carlisle won't be coming over

Hes out of contract, and if he nominates us, the deal gets done, just like Crameri and Ryder.

FWIW, Ryder went for picks 17 and 37.

Im not saying hes the absolute best fit for us, but hes a pretty good one, and more to the point, its totally plausible, with him liking the dogs, liking money, and not having resigned.

If he announces that "contract talks are being put on hold until the end of the year" then it will be on like Donkey Kong.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

A part from freeing Roughy up, if we can have genuine sized defenders taking big players, guys like Bob, Wood, Biggs, Z. Cordy can play on guys their own size and play more offensive roles. When Hargy and Gilbee got to play on blokes their size they turned into very good players almost overnight.

So having Roughy at 24 with a big body and good hands up the ground should be a great result and allows us flexibility to drop him back on David Hale type ruck/fwds or take the first or second ruck role or go forward to take a bigger defender off Stringer or Crameri which again has a good flow on.

At some point in time we all know deep down that a small is being traded out. We've stock piled them and it's the obvious area we can cover. I'm an unabashed Hrovat fan, but if a big trade that changes our structures for so much benefit comes along then (for me) I'm affraid he could be our Moloney trade player. Essendon have been into JJ and if he keeps developing they might want him. If we have a top 6 pick I'd want a swap of first rounders = Us: Carlisle, 12. Them: 6, 26 and Hrovat.

[jeemak]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

^I've said for a long time BT that a big reason we've gone heavy on smaller types that can clearly play, and bolstered our list in this area is because we're ultimately going to trade one or some of them out once they've developed some currency and our finals tilt is drawn together.

My pick at this stage would be Dahl. He has developed the currency, but in my view is never going to be as polished with the footy as some of the others we have on our list, and sits at the closest to his ceiling in effectiveness. It's a tough call on him perhaps, but the deficiencies that held him back from being drafted are becoming more prolific as he takes on more responsibility within the team.

I might get pilloried for this point of view, but players of his size that can't finish by foot and who panic with the ball cost games.

[comrade]

Re: Our Worrying Defence

^I've said for a long time BT that a big reason we've gone heavy on smaller types that can clearly play, and bolstered our list in this area is because we're ultimately going to trade one or some of them out once they've developed some currency and our finals tilt is drawn together.

My pick at this stage would be Dahl. He has developed the currency, but in my view is never going to be as polished with the footy as some of the others we have on our list, and sits at the closest to his ceiling in effectiveness. It's a tough call on him perhaps, but the deficiencies that held him back from being drafted are becoming more prolific as he takes on more responsibility within the team.

I might get pilloried for this point of view, but players of his size that can't finish by foot and who panic with the ball cost games.

I feel dirty, but I tend to agree.

He has so many good qualities, but I doubt he'll ever iron out the kicking and decision making errors he makes under pressure.

It would be a huge risk trading him out though. He's the face of the club for a lot of young supporters, and I've no doubt he's a big presence and spiritual leader type amongst the playing group.