2nd ruck role

[whythelongface]

Re: 2nd ruck role

It is an interesting question. Last year I would have thought that Campbell would be our 2nd ruckman particular after his strong showing in the latter half of 2013, however now I am not sure if he has a role within the team structure (since Boyd's switch). I think Campbell will continue to develop at VFL in the hope that he does step up once Minson is reaching the end of his career.

If Redpath is our CHF option then I would suspect he will be used either in the ruck or possibly switched to defence and then Roughie used as our 2nd ruck. When this switch is made Bonti moves into a CHF role.

Another wild card could be Ayce. However I am concerned about his ability to play anywhere else but ruck.This effectively rules him out as he would be a potential liability around the ground (unless he has improved considerably).

[boydogs]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Redpath is only 194cm, given the doubts on whether Hamling & Z Cordy are tall enough for KPD I'm surprised by the support for him to play ruck

[GVGjr]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Redpath is only 194cm, given the doubts on whether Hamling & Z Cordy are tall enough for KPD I'm surprised by the support for him to play ruck

Not ruck but 2nd ruck. Close to 5 mins per quarter to give Minson a chop out.
Is the Hamling and Zaine Cordy reference relevant given that Redpath has a lot stronger build than the other two?

[boydogs]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Not ruck but 2nd ruck. Close to 5 mins per quarter to give Minson a chop out.
Is the Hamling and Zaine Cordy reference relevant given that Redpath has a lot stronger build than the other two?

Build is important however I would argue that height is more important in the ruck than anywhere else on the ground, as ruck contests are always in the air and with both rucks side by side. The more athletic rucks don't even get them same run up they used to when they cut that down to reduce injuries

[jeemak]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Cordy is at a stage in his development where he should make this position his own. He is the most interesting prospect for the first half of our season for mine, and coming off a solid VFL finals series he should have some confidence to take a step forward.

I like Roughead in defence, as he's the only player on our list likely to take charge of a high ball coming into our defencive 50m area. He needs to remain in that role.

When Minson retires Campbell will be the first ruck, though until then I think he needs to fight it out with Cordy for the second ruck role. I really don't see any issues with playing all of Campbell/Cordy, Stringer, Grant, Bontempelli and Boyd in the same forward line. Two or three of those players can play short, smart and quick if need be, meaning we may finally have a tall forward line that is flexible enough to stretch some defenders and stop them from smashing the conciliatory tall we normally have there making up the numbers.

Losing Griffyn, Cooney, Higgins and Jones has made it easier for me to propose the above. Guys like Dahl, Hunter, Hrovat and Stevens will have to lift more weight in the midfield, meaning as rotations through that region and off the bench take place we'll only need to have one dedicated small forward with another small mid taking some time there while one of the taller forwards has a spell. Crameri will spend a fair bit of time up around the wing and half back area too.

[whythelongface]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Cordy is at a stage in his development where he should make this position his own. He is the most interesting prospect for the first half of our season for mine, and coming off a solid VFL finals series he should have some confidence to take a step forward.

I like Roughead in defence, as he's the only player on our list likely to take charge of a high ball coming into our defencive 50m area. He needs to remain in that role.

When Minson retires Campbell will be the first ruck, though until then I think he needs to fight it out with Cordy for the second ruck role. I really don't see any issues with playing all of Campbell/Cordy, Stringer, Grant, Bontempelli and Boyd in the same forward line. Two or three of those players can play short, smart and quick if need be, meaning we may finally have a tall forward line that is flexible enough to stretch some defenders and stop them from smashing the conciliatory tall we normally have there making up the numbers.

Losing Griffyn, Cooney, Higgins and Jones has made it easier for me to propose the above. Guys like Dahl, Hunter, Hrovat and Stevens will have to lift more weight in the midfield, meaning as rotations through that region and off the bench take place we'll only need to have one dedicated small forward with another small mid taking some time there while one of the taller forwards has a spell. Crameri will spend a fair bit of time up around the wing and half back area too.

Jeemak you make some good observations in regards to a tall forward line. If Campbell can have the same impact in that area as he did in the latter half of 2013 then we potentially have two tall forwards over 200cm. This would be very hard for the opposition to negate. With Boyd being our no. 1 forward target this really opens the door for a Campbell to play that 2nd/3rd tall forward option along with Stringer. Throw in the likes of Crameri and Bonts and we could finally have some serious options within our forward structure.

[Bornadog]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Cordy is at a stage in his development where he should make this position his own. He is the most interesting prospect for the first half of our season for mine, and coming off a solid VFL finals series he should have some confidence to take a step forward.

In the VFL GrandFinal, I thought Cordy gave us more out of the centre than Campbell. When Hawthorn went 18 points ahead, Cordy was switched into the centre and won some crucial taps, which went straight down the throat of Jong.

Both Campbell and Cordy have a long way to go, but I agree they have to fight out the 2nd ruck role as we don't have too many options.

[Mofra]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Build is important however I would argue that height is more important in the ruck than anywhere else on the ground, as ruck contests are always in the air and with both rucks side by side. The more athletic rucks don't even get them same run up they used to when they cut that down to reduce injuries

Redpath is 3cm shorter than Jones but a much, much better 2nd ruckman due to his aggression.

A 2nd ruckman just needs to be aggressive enough to force a contest and reduce the opposition hitouts to advantage, especially considering Minson rucks 80-90% of the game.

[soupman]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Redpath is 3cm shorter than Jones but a much, much better 2nd ruckman due to his aggression.

A 2nd ruckman just needs to be aggressive enough to force a contest and reduce the opposition hitouts to advantage, especially considering Minson rucks 80-90% of the game.

Correct. The second ruck is basically there to halve the ruck contests. If he doesn't get a hitout that's fine as long as the opposition don't either.

[Cyberdoggie]

Re: 2nd ruck role

Redpath is only 194cm, given the doubts on whether Hamling & Z Cordy are tall enough for KPD I'm surprised by the support for him to play ruck

I agree it doesn't sound like he's tall enough for a ruck but he's only 4 cm shorter than Minson and he's 100kg's.
When you look at 4cm on a ruler it's not very much but on paper it sounds a lot more.
Take a look at Wayde Skipper, he was only 193cm but managed to ruck because of his leap.

Late in the games when players stop jumping as much at the ruck a big body is hard to push around.

[bulldogtragic]

Re: 2nd ruck role

The comments of our first genuinely capable key forward since Chris Grant potentially playing 2nd ruck are not filling me warmth and joy.

[always right]

Re: 2nd ruck role

I think trying both Boyd and Campbell up forward is worth experimenting with. Campbell is not good enough to be the go-to big forward we tried to develop a couple of years back but with the attention on Boyd, he may actually be a threat. It's the sort of thing we can trial in the NAB games......push our mobile forwards up the ground where they can use their pace and creativity and have them charging into the forwardline to get the crumbs from the two big blokes.

[Bulldog Joe]

Re: 2nd ruck role

I think trying both Boyd and Campbell up forward is worth experimenting with. Campbell is not good enough to be the go-to big forward we tried to develop a couple of years back but with the attention on Boyd, he may actually be a threat. It's the sort of thing we can trial in the NAB games......push our mobile forwards up the ground where they can use their pace and creativity and have them charging into the forwardline to get the crumbs from the two big blokes.

We did consistently use 2 big guys forward at VFL last year.

Had Cordy/Campbell rotating with Redpath forward. All were effective, but it is a different level.

[LostDoggy]

Re: 2nd ruck role

The comments of our first genuinely capable key forward since Chris Grant potentially playing 2nd ruck are not filling me warmth and joy.

It doesn't bother me as much. Are we worried he will get hurt? It's only really the centre bounces that pose danger and even then you can't really get a big enough run up now days to cause too much damage.

It will help his fitness, get him up and ground and getting more touches of the footy. It may even fast track his developement a year or 2.

If we are copping a flogging and Boyd isn't seeing much footy I would be all for it.

[always right]

Re: 2nd ruck role

We did consistently use 2 big guys forward at VFL last year.

Had Cordy/Campbell rotating with Redpath forward. All were effective, but it is a different level.

Yes we did but I hardly think the comparison is fair. Although he is yet to really prove himself, I suspect opposition teams will be far more wary of Boyd than they were of Redpath and Cordy. Campbell may be the beneficiary of the focus on Boyd.